Footbahlin with Ben Roethlisberger
Footbahlin with Ben Roethlisberger
A Pittsburgh Draft Weekend With Big Ben & Max Starks! Ep 127
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The Steelers draft weekend gave us a perfect excuse to do two things at once: take you inside what Pittsburgh felt like when the NFL rolled into town, and then go straight into a real Steelers draft breakdown with no sugarcoating. Ben shares the Thursday night scene, the security maze, the green room surprises, and the kind of Terry Bradshaw interaction you only get when football feels like family. From there we get into the picks, the wide receiver twist right before the Steelers were on the clock, and why the offensive line decision is either going to look brilliant or brutal depending on how fast the rookie is ready.
Then Max Starks steps into the basement and the stories go deep fast. We talk the 2004 draft class, the phone call from Bill Cowher, and what it’s like to land in Pittsburgh when you thought you were headed somewhere else. Max takes us back through Super Bowl XL and Super Bowl XLIII with the details only an offensive lineman can give, from snow football memories to the final-drive reality of stress, leverage, and trust. If you’ve ever wondered how a quarterback scramble changes protection or why holding calls aren’t always on the blocker, Max explains it in plain language.
We also connect it to today: Steelers team-building priorities, whether trading up makes sense, how the Aaron Rodgers situation could be more than a simple yes or no, and why building the trenches still matters most. We even zoom out into NIL and the transfer portal to talk about how it’s reshaping college football development and what that means for the NFL pipeline. Subscribe, share this with a Steelers fan, and leave a review if you want more conversations like this. Which draft pick or Super Bowl moment do you still argue about?
Footbahlin Merch:
https://footbahlin-with-ben-roethlisberger.clockwise.io/products
Welcome And Episode Roadmap
SPEAKER_03Hey, I'm Ben Rothersberger. Welcome to Football with Ben Rothersberger. This is the basement. Wanted to do a little something unusual today, Spence. We are going to give you an unbelievable episode that we shot last week before the draft with Max Starks, where we talk about his predictions of the draft, talk a lot about um Super Bowl 40, Super Bowl 43, a lot of really cool things. A great episode. But we felt that since the draft just happened, we had to give you guys a quick little um recap of the draft, our my two cents, our two cents on what we did for the draft. So we're gonna give you a quick little nugget um special feature on the draft and then get right into Max's episode.
Inside The NFL Draft In Pittsburgh
SPEAKER_01Got to. You gotta do it. We were gonna wake it because we've we filmed that before the draft, and we actually did a little prediction. You'll see it in the episode following this little thing. But we have Max predicted. So check out Max's prediction. You can't not talk about the draft. So we don't want to wait another week to talk about it. So here it is. This is the this is Ben's take. Now it's interesting, very interesting. Because uh you made your way down there, making your way down town. Yeah, went down town. Yeah, that opening was that they did, brother. You could have you could have fooled me that that wasn't just for the city of Pittsburgh. That I know it was for like all of the teams and it took place in Pittsburgh, but brother, the numbers I think that got back, I think over the course of the weekend was 800,000 people, 300,000 the first night. Before we jump into the picks, real quickly, what was that experience of you going down there on Thursday night?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was pretty cool. Uh I took Benjamin down uh and and you know they talked about all the traffic. There wasn't really bad traffic, and then you kind of got to the north shore, and then it turned into like there was police, there was security. We had to, we we got because of the car that that picked us up, we were able to get we had a pass that was able to get us kind of back. But you know, you had to stop two blocks away. We had to get out of the car, go through metal detector, get back, got the car searched, get back in the car, go through a couple barricades, get dropped off at the stadium, go through another metal detector. Uh, and then we got to the green room. And the second we walked into the green room, um Heinz Ward was in there, Mel Blunt was in there, Lynn Swan was in there, uh TJ Watt was in there, Cam. Uh, and then right away, as soon as we walked in, we saw Terry Bratshaw. And Terry was unbelievable. He grabbed Benjamin and I, and the three of us literally spent 20 minutes talking in the corner just about just everything from he was talking about golf. If I asked him Benjamin about his golf, told us where he played when he was here in Pittsburgh and the driving range. And it was just so much fun to um actually, you might like Terry's kind of golf. I know you like to golf. You're getting into it. He says, I was talking to when I talked to his wife at the end, I said, you know, you you golf with Terry and everything because you know he was telling us that they golf together. And and she goes, Yeah. And I was telling him I want to get my wife into golf when she's done with school. And he said, or she said, Yeah, we call it Bradshaw golf. So if we're in the bunker, we take it out. If it's in the rough, we move it over. I'm like, oh, that's a lot of people. My wife would like that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Bradshaw golf sounds great, Terry. I would love to go out and play a Bradshaw golf. I you know what? I've been playing Bradshaw golf since I started. Actually, now I think about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But that but it was really cool to be with him. There, I mean, I think some of y'all, um, the family out there saw the pictures that we posted of the three of us together. That was really cool. I mean, and and Benjamin just said, he told my dad, he said, it was so cool. We were talking to Mr. Mr. Terry, and he was like, he was like just like a grandpa. Like he was so cool telling stories, and he was so loving and kind, and and and it was just really special to be there. And then at one point, Mel Blunt grabs Benjamin, like around, like puts his arm around him and says, Hey everybody, he goes, This is the guy that won my golf tournament. He won closest to the pin, and he's holding court, right, with Heinz and Lin Swan and all these people, and it's just him under Benjamin's arm. Dang, and all these guys listened, and Benjamin just like so. It was it was it was a really cool experience. And then they grabbed us and took us to the side stage, and Benjamin and I were on one side, and um you know, we got to see the whole intro and be around all the the uh the unbelievable military personnel that went out for the national anthem, which I don't think they showed that on TV. I don't know if they did.
SPEAKER_01I didn't I didn't see I had to catch the clips as I was uh chasing um toddlers around my house.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that was understandable, but but and then they they got us out on stage and to go out there and then hearing the warm ovation from the crowd and then um embracing Terry on the stage and then uh just just a really, really cool environment, cool experience, and just looking out and seeing the the mass of people was was just so surreal. What a beautiful day for Pittsburgh. The weather was great, the city's so beautiful. It did such a it was it it showed so well, you know, and it's what you expect. I think Pittsburgh can get a bad name for being dirty or the the cold, the steel, all the stuff that it used to be. People don't give it enough credit for how it is now. Yeah, you've got some amazing sections of this town, uh you know, and and just I think it just it anybody that came in, because I think people there was this this stigma of like we're not gonna go to Pittsburgh. And I think anyone that came was I hopefully was like, man, this is what a beautiful city. Because a lot of people I've talked to, when they come here for the first time, they're like, wow, I didn't realize you come through that four-pit tunnel and bang, and it's just 100%, bro.
SPEAKER_01I will say this as somebody who's born and raised in Tampa and lived in California. Like, I have my gripes with Pittsburgh, but it's just because of the winter. Yeah, it's more I have a problem with winter as a whole. Just generally the month of February just seems like like when I get to have it, I'm like, so what's up with um February? Like, we still do you still you thought that was a good thing? Okay, man, you would know you would know, yeah. So I get that, but I think it is important when there's a time when your city is put on such a uh like international stage to give it its flowers. Like Pittsburgh is a beautiful city. Yes, and I for me, it's again being a transplant, being indoctrinated by the Yinzers. I'm like, I anytime I go back, people are like, oh man, what's your favorite thing about Pittsburgh? I'm like, it's it has to be the people. It's like a cheesy answer, man. But like it's I hope people who came into the city got to experience that, man. Because it was it was really cool to see our city put on display and it be such a successful event.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yep, it was awesome. And it was, you know, such a great time. And again, we were in and out pretty quick, but it was um a really a cool experience for Pittsburgh and and the city and the people. So congratulations, everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I just think about that, man. Like, I obviously have a unique perspective of Steelers Nation just because of our relationship and what we do here, but it was so cool to see all that. I'm just thinking about some of the friends I have in the city that that grew up born wrapped in a terrible towel to see all you guys on stage. Like, I'm like, all them rings just sitting there, like, what a beautiful moment. Whoever orchestrated that, all you guys for being a part of it, to give that to the city kind of talks about the conversation uh that we had uh with Willie and and some of the topics we have with Willie and um and some of the other conversations that we have coming up as well. Come up. It's uh just talking about giving back to the city, man. It was just such a good uh people talk about it. I know there was a movie that was released about about you know um Pittsburgh being a football, uh a football town. I'm like, I think it's the yeah, it's I've been to Green Bay, I've been to Chicago, I've been like Detroit's a good one too.
SPEAKER_03But like pretty special here.
SPEAKER_01It's a different anime.
SPEAKER_03Greatest fans in all the sports, and they bleed it. It's pretty cool.
Steelers Draft Recap Begins
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a it's a it's a team that like you're excited to be proud of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's jump into the draft, man, because I feel like uh man, it it it got it got weird early. It got weird early, but I want to get your takes on it, man. So let's start start around one. Uh, did you guys you guys didn't stay down?
SPEAKER_03No, we we got uh we got out of there as soon as we could because it was so late as uh you know we'd do something Friday morning, so we had to get back. But yeah, we were in now, we got home in time. It was like I'm going to bed, and it was like pick 18. I'm like, well, I might as well just stay up, a couple more picks and see who the steel is gonna. I kept waiting for him to trade up.
SPEAKER_01I know okay, so that we talked about it.
SPEAKER_03Which we talked about on Max's episode, which y'all should watch and see. But yeah, we talked about trading up, and and I thought there was a chance they'd jump out of Baltimore and try and take that Iowa or the um Penn State Guard. Yeah, I thought that too. But obviously, you know, things played out, and then and then obviously the big news I think early was the wide receiver drama at the 20th 20th pick. The 20th pick. From from the reports uh that I read and heard and that everybody's talked about is that the Steelers were on the phone with uh the young man from USC.
SPEAKER_00Mikai Lemon, yep.
SPEAKER_03And I think Pittsburgh was excited for that. I think it was gonna be an unbelievable weapon for Aaron or Aaron Rodgers or whatever quarterback's gonna be here. Yeah, so think it's gonna be Aaron, but uh and then all of a sudden, the for back lack of a better word, the Eagles swooped in. Oh, look at you. Nice bird phrase. And got him. Yeah, and so I I wonder what, like, you know, hoping the Steelers were prepared for what you know the next pick was it. I hope it wasn't just a panic, and obviously they went.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask you about that.
SPEAKER_03I I you have to be prepared for everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I assume that they had their okay, this is our guy. Like we talk about the time on the board, you have our needs, our wants, and our best available. And so I think you know, line was obviously a uh a need and a one. They needed and they wanted it. And so uh, you know, that's that's what happened. So I think when that when when Makai gets taken right before him, it's like, okay, well, let's let's get back get back into it, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was a crazy experience. I the more I looked at it and I was talking to uh the resident chef Evan, uh, I'm like, I felt more of like a dirty deed by the cowboys. It was like they wanted to stick it to us one more time. Like, I mean, those two, because that's in division, man. You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna help your boy, like you're gonna help your opponent out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it seems weird to take a hate on us, though.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? So yeah, it was a unique thing too. And I wonder what's going through uh Max Ahenchor, uh, I believe is how you pronounce it. Forgive me if I'm getting that wrong.
SPEAKER_03That's not Rothelsberger. I got my we're allowed, we're allowed to mess it up. I'm calling Max, okay?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've had mine. Mine's only three letters, and it's you're you'd be amazed. Uh yeah, it'd be amazed at the how many different variations. I didn't even know. Anyway, so Max, my man from Arizona State. Interesting choice because I feel like uh uh some of the the critique is that he hasn't been playing football long.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, I think that's gonna be um I think that's gonna be the the interesting thing. I I I don't I don't know if I love it or hate it. I I would say that I I think it's a good move in the sense they need a lineman. Okay. It seems like from what I've heard and what I've seen is that this guy, this young man, um, if you want to look at like the pros and cons, right? I think the pros are the oh, let's go to the cons. I'll look at the cons first. Cons are he he really hasn't been playing football that long, right? That can be good and bad. It's it's bad in the sense we're gonna go into a pros and cons into another pros and cons. The it can be good in the sense that your body is still relatively fresh. You learn it, yeah. You know, you're still trying to your body's not beat up from playing high school football and college football, uh, or play, you know, playing for a lot of years, little league and all that. Uh the downside is there's a lot of things you can learn. You've been playing the game, understand the nuances of it. Um, so there's there's that about him being kind of new to the game of football. Uh I I heard that he absolutely oh, and another uh a con that I that I remember hearing reading about was a lot of penalties, which you would which you would get because you haven't played much. Now the pros are he's supposedly a man child, right? Like he is just a monster, yeah, strong. Suppose he had an unbelievable senior bowl. Yeah, play he's played, you know, started a bunch of games in college. That that's always beneficial. You get more than just one year in it. So that's that's a a a pro. Um I'm not sure what's gonna happen though, because he's played such minimal football, but it's all been a right tackle. So are you gonna move because you you really need a left tackle because of um um Broderick Jones and what we've heard, the news we've heard about him and maybe his injury, setback, things like that. So are you gonna throw him at left tackle? Which if he hasn't played a lot of football, he's you know, it's not like he's it's ingrained in him that he can only play right, or are you gonna move um um Troy um Fatanu? Fatanu over. So it's like, okay, what are we gonna do? Yeah. So that's my question. Where are they gonna put him? I assume you're gonna want him to to play this year. I mean, you'd hate you'd hate for I would hate for my first round pick to be a project. Well, that was gonna be my question. And be like, okay, you know what? In three to five years, he's gonna be a stud. Yeah, you do that with your second, third, four, you your first round pick, you've got to you have to anticipate him coming in and playing right now. So that makes me a little nervous about the project. Like, we could look back on this in three to five years and be like, Omar McCarthy, what a pick. Yeah, great job. We also could look back on it three to five years and be like, What are we doing? Why would you not take a more seasoned guy?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that was some of the, I mean, the fan reaction I think was probably indicative of how I felt in that moment. You're a lot of people obviously wanted Makai Lemon. Like that's that's the whole thing. You wanted a receiver. Um, and then going into the trenches. A lot of people were upset that we didn't get a different receiver because there are still notable receivers on the brook. But again, we've been saying this for weeks. You have to continue to build your O-line. So I I don't I don't hate that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't hate the pick either. I just wonder if there wasn't a more a more seasoned guy. But again, that's my yes. I this may end up being one of those ones where it's like, wow, what a what a steal. What a diamond in the rough. What I mean, you don't call a first rounder a steal, but right if he can play football for the next in in 12 years, if we're looking back, like, hey, remember Max?
SPEAKER_01Remember we talked about that show? No problem, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, I think it could be okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, all right, let's go to round two, pick 47. Jeremy Bernard, wide receiver from Alabama, which is where this is again after day one, it felt like there was a little bit of panic among us, and then they come back and they get your wide receiver. I like this pick, man. I think this pick is awesome.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I do too. Um, you know, you you have to be thinking probably as a slot guy. I think he's 6'1, 205. I think he's 6'6'1, 200 pounds, so not super small. Um I I think good hands catcher, seven touchdowns, a guy that you can I think utilize and move around. I think it's a smart pick. I think it's a good one for um whoever the quarterback's gonna be. I think you you you throw him into the mix, you've got three pretty darn good receivers right now. And so I think that's a I think it's exciting. I think it's a good pick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, he's not tiny. Physical receiver. He's not tiny in that regard, but he can play slot. I mean, if you watch some of his tape in Alabama, I mean, he's outside, he's inside. It seems like he can kind of just do anything. Right. Um, and I just good route runner.
SPEAKER_03I mean, all that stuff. Like that's what you want when you want an inside good, a good slot guy.
SPEAKER_01I think he had like five drops total, you know, in his college career or something crazy like that. Like uh, so yeah, I thought that was great. It was good to see that they were pouring into that. The next one, and and as we're moving along in round three, man, this is the one that's probably one of the more controversial picks outside of the fact, you know, the whole first round debacle, but was Drew Aller. Right. Quarterback out of Penn State, man. This is one that, like, again, you look at him on paper, 6'5, 228. I think is the last time I have him slated here on these stats here. Former five-star recruit. Um, what I've watched a handful and on the smaller sized handful of games from Penn State. Um, I I hope everything happens great for this kid in his career. I hope he has a great career. I didn't see much in college that I was like geeked on when this happened. What was your take?
SPEAKER_03I know. Yeah, same. I'm kind of the same way. Uh, I'm not this is a this is one that I'm not sure yet if I love it or hate it. Okay. Uh, and and hates a strong way. Whether I'm like, you know, could they third round? I mean, you can get a lot of really good players in the third round. Yes. Um, I don't think this was done because they know anything about Aaron. It wasn't like, okay, we know Aaron's not coming, so we're doing this. I think it was uh we liked a big physical quarterback. Yeah, clearly. Yeah. Um down the road, you know, Penn State type thing, but he is coming off an injury. It was an early season injury, so that that's you have that. I think he had a lot of height behind him at one point. I would say this, I'm with you. I I don't I didn't watch a lot of Penn State games. When I did watch, he never jumped off the page to me. Sure. Okay. His is he big? Can he move? Can he throw? Yeah. But he but he there was never a time when I'm like, whoa. Like, yeah. Now, some of that might be too because he they have some stud running backs and they're handing the ball off a lot. So you there is some of that, you know, to to take in consideration. You know, it's this is gonna be a I they're gonna bring him in to compete with Will Howard. I you know, I assume if Aaron comes back, they're probably gonna move on from Mason, I would think, and let those two young guys compete for the two and three job. Sure. If Aaron doesn't come back, then I think you have all three of them competing. Um three, I think Mason, um, Will, and uh Drew You know, this one the the jury's out on me right now. Again, he there it was nothing that just jumped off the page from me, but but whether that's good or bad, I don't know. But but it's just um we'll see. We'll see about this one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't absolutely despise this. I'm again strong words, but I'm not in the negative category with this. I was more confused on why you're using a third round. 76 seems a little like, hey man, let's just yeah.
SPEAKER_03Was there other people available that your team needed more? Maybe the Steelers feel they that a quarterback and maybe you know, whether it's Will or whatever it is, they they feel like we need someone to compete with Will, someone else to push it. Will was a six rounder, this is a third rounder. I think this will push Will. I I just I when I watch tape, or if I watch games, Will Howard jumped off the the tape to me way more than Drew did. You said in third round, sixth round, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01You were singing his praises before he even got in the show, and you got a chance to tell him that to his face, man. And um, but but I would agree. I think the display, there's moments I think in Will Howard's college career where I'm like, oh, without that guy, you're in trouble. Your team's in trouble in this moment. Yeah. Whereas again, I again small sample size, but I I didn't necessarily feel that uh watching Penn State games on the quarterback position. Obviously, that's still up in the air with Aaron Rodgers not making a decision or whatever. Do you think them drafting a quarterback impacts Aaron's decision at all?
SPEAKER_03I don't. Not not I because if if Aaron wants to come back, he's coming back. And nothing that I mean, I think when you're when you get to a certain level, you don't care about who the team brings in. Like this is my job. Yeah, yeah. You know, when I was playing, I was like, I don't they could trade for Tom Brady. I don't I still think I'm keeping my job. That's just how you feel. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, that's very interesting, man. We're moving on. Uh I again I'd like to see how it is, especially because you know the quarterback position is going to be, I feel like you have uh your offense is coming together, man. They're paying, you know, they're pouring into the line. There's that. So moving on, uh round three, pick 85, Dalen Everett, cornerback, cornerback out of Georgia. How'd you feel when you saw that?
SPEAKER_03Addressing needs. Yep. Right? We knew wide receiver, we knew line, we knew secondary was a need. Uh, don't know much about this kid other than I know he's a physical type corner. I think he likes to play man. I think old Steelers, that's what they want to do. I again, all new coaching staff, we're not sure what they're gonna do. But uh anytime you can get a physical guy, I think it's a good move.
SPEAKER_01I think Georgia is secondary, is probably uh not a bad place to draft from, right? SEC test. I mean, it's just yeah, that's a physical um program that got over there. This one, it wasn't this next one, I think was my personal favorite.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it's everybody's. I think this is the this is the uh this is the crowd favorite. I think this is the this is everyone's favorite pick of the draft. Well, one of I think the the last one was a big one too. But I think this is gonna be everyone's like like you could see this kid, I think, might have more jerseys.
SPEAKER_01More people are gonna buy his jersey than most other ones. Brother, I'm I might buy one right now on air. Yes, this is around, of course. We're talking about pick 99, round three, Jennings Dunker out of Iowa. Brother, his name his hair matches his name. He throws big bales of hay for fun. That's just how he gets down, dude.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is good. This is the one that you want as a quarterback. You're like, this is this is like the name. We call him the neighbor. You know, we used to have, you know, he's the guy that's gonna like like use someone, he's gonna like use someone to push up off of him. Like a little, he's going to the whistle and just a little past the whistle. A little slump. He's seeing, I don't know, and I know nothing about this guy, just what he seems. He seems like a guy that's gonna give you the business. Yeah, and he's gonna love doing it, and he's gonna protect his quarterback, whoever it is, and he's gonna fight for him, and he's gonna go a little extra. And if you hit the quarterback a little bit late, he might get ejected. Like he seems like that kind of guy. I don't again, I don't know him.
SPEAKER_01You never met him, but it seems like he's the guy you want on your squad. And you got that full pre probably pretty accurate read just from the hair, right? Just from hair and watching him run and do an interview. That's all. I mean, so talking about pipeline in Georgia with the secondary, I mean, Iowa's got to be up the Pittsburgh pipeline at this point, right? Lyman.
SPEAKER_03Yes, tight ends, lineman, those are the guys that come out of Iowa.
SPEAKER_01I mean, this is a guy. So, what was interesting about this is not only did it you like the player, obviously for the brand, but also from what you saw on tape. But it made number the first round pick feel a little bit more comforting to me.
SPEAKER_03Because, oh, okay, okay, okay. Depth, yes. Listen, we're trying to add depth, and that's important. We can this guy played tackle. Probably, I would think I can see him more as a guard here at this level. So I think that's important. But again, anytime you can have a guy that can can flex around, we had some great linemen in my day, guys like like Trey Essex could play all five spots. The more spots you can play on the line, the longer you last, the more valuable you are. So if this young man was a tackle, but now it comes into guard, well, guess what? All of a sudden in the game, I gotta move him back out the tackle because he can. Yeah, super valuable. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01And I think um that is uh gotta be the the Pittsburgh, I mean, favorite, right? The sweetheart. I would think so. Well, what's interesting too, man, is that like you're talking about your first round draft pick um wanting to be a starter. Like this is a guy that in round three, I feel like could probably be a starter this year, maybe takes a little bit of pressure off that first round, though you want that.
SPEAKER_03I think it what you want to see is you want to see your first round max starting at right tackle and this guy starting at right guard for the next 10 years in Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's what's up. Yeah, yeah.
Late Round Steals And Storylines
SPEAKER_03They're boys, their roommate came in together, and they they're they're just that you you couldn't get more opposite. Yep. I mean, literally, you couldn't get more opposite, but but they could just be boys and they they fight together for the next 10 to 12 years. That'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_01All right, going on to round four, pick one, 21. This is Caden Wiegen, wide receiver returner out of Iowa. This was an interesting one because this young man got the call in the golf course, which is famously he's that video is out there. Good for him. I didn't see that. And the the hang up on that was like I the from what I've seen from him, I thought he's a great player, right? But it it did feel like would did we reach? A little bit in the fourth round to get off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it seems like that a little bit. Um, you know, this could have been one I think where people talk about a reach. Uh obviously he can shut everybody up real quick, but I think the reason that this one happened was because of the loss of Calvin Austin third as a returner. I think that you could look at this guy as maybe a slot receiver, but I think more importantly, you're looking as maybe a returner. Yeah. And I think that's kind of what you're thinking right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I um decided to see how that plays out. Round five, pick 169. Riley Noah Noah Kowski. Noakowski. Excuse me, my brother. Uh, Riley Noahkowski. Uh, this is your fullback tight end out of Indiana. All right, obviously filling some holes here, man. What you what was your thought there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is a fill for Connor Hayward, obviously losing him to the Raiders, I believe. Uh, you need to have that guy that can probably record a special team. Or I'm guessing this this young man's a is a special team guy. And so uh you're gonna you're gonna utilize him in that area, and then any kind of run game that the coach decides to use, which probably won't be a lot, they'll you know put him in there for they need a fullback.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was like, well, what's well because as Charlie was talking about the West Coast offense, man. What was that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, not not typically not a lot of fullback, but I think you'll get some in there. Cool, cool. I'm trying to think of like John Kuhn was was there in Green Bay. I think he was with them, and he was a fullback here, though. So they go.
SPEAKER_01All right, round six, as we're moving on, pick uh 210, Gabriel Rubio, defensive tackle out of Notre Dame. This was one that kind of got me head scratching too. Only for the sheer fact, no disrespect to you, Mr. Rubio, but I was unaware of your resume uh heading into this draft.
SPEAKER_03So he had a good one? No, oh well.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying it's a bad. I just I was unaware. I didn't know I had this the first time I heard the name.
SPEAKER_03Listen, I know nothing about him. I hope he's great. I would say he's from Notre Dame, so Chef Evans is probably happy. Oh, yeah, that's true. Maybe it's just NAB approval, it's all that matters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. If we can get Ed down here to all right, it's a round seven moving forward. I hope it's great. Listen, I hope you have a great career. Stay healthy, get paid, brother. All right, round seven, pick 224. This is Robert Spears Jennings. This is, I thought probably should have gone sooner in the draft. And this is something, a position you've been talking about for a minute. Safety, Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_03Safety, physical guy, fast, um, efficient. You know, when you talk about efficiency, doesn't miss a lot of tackles, is a guy that you need back there in the in the secondary, can can make plays. But I like the I like the physical and the speed element because it's a guy that you can have cover a lot of ground.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, and I think uh again, I think that was probably the steal of our of our draft there. All right, last one, but certainly not least. This is round seven pick 230. Eli Heidenreich. This is the running back out of Navy who had maybe the greatest storyline moment of the draft. Hometown kid sitting there in his dressed in his blues, looking sharp, gets to walk down the tunnel on that immaculate stage, see the Pittsburgh skyline off in the distance, an entire city cheering for his dream that just walked out, shook Raj's hand, looked at his hometown, tears running down his face, tears running down my face. It was a beautiful moment, brother. Yes. What was your thought about this?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you you said the the the junker dunker one, Dunker, Junker, whatever. Um, was the the crowd favorite. If it's not that one, it's this one. Um, I got a text on this one from uh a buddy of buddy of ours, Kevin Shields, who's from Mount Lebanon, and just said, hey, what a classy move by the Steelers taking this kid, what a great kid story. Man, anytime you can support the Naval Academy, the you know, any of the uh the service um men and women, Army, Navy, Air Force, any of those uh schools. Uh, this is a cool one. I'm excited to see. I don't know what exactly they're gonna use him for, but it could be returner, could be uh maybe a like a receiver kind of guy, like just just maybe like a Swiss Army knife. Yeah, I'm seeing it could be our Swiss Army knife.
SPEAKER_01I'm seeing more of that. He's got some good speed too. Yeah, and and the comparables, I think, for some of his colleagues, his senior year, they put it up against Christian McCaffrey, man. So there've been a lot of comparisons to Christian McCaffrey. Yeah, and I mean, but when you see the stats, you're like, okay, brother, again, different animal. But uh, I if he can fill those shoes, brother, I think that's another steal. Um, and I this is a conversation as we're wrapping this up that we had about Coach McCarthy as he entered. And you mentioned it before. What what um degree of impact does being from the city, understanding Pittsburgh DNA, like how does that impact these decisions and what impact you think it'll make on his career?
SPEAKER_03That kid's gonna give everything he's got. I mean, not saying he wouldn't anyway, but but even more so, he he's gonna he's gonna go at it. He's gonna it it's good. This is special, special for him. And so I'm excited to kind of see what he does. And you know you're gonna get, you're gonna, he's gonna leave it all in the field. You know that. And so I'm excited to kind of see what he how Eli does.
SPEAKER_01I think we all are, man. And we're all rooting for you, brother. I mean, I'm rooting for all you guys. All of them, yeah.
SPEAKER_03We're rooting for all you guys. Anything we say on this show, I mean, it's just we know nothing. We hope all you guys are successful and have long careers here in Pittsburgh and help us bring another Lombardi back here.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I agree with that back half that sentiment. You said we know nothing. I know nothing. You know a little something, bro. All right, but uh yeah, let's let land this plan and show these people this episode.
Max Starks Joins The Basement
SPEAKER_03Yeah, all right, everybody. Thank you for tuning in for the quick little sneak peek of our draft. Uh, stay tuned right now. I promise you, we'll not disappoint you. Max Starks is absolutely awesome, great stories, uh, great uh laughs, and uh just a great human being. So stay tuned right now, Max Starks coming at you. All right, welcome back to the basement. This is Footballing with Ben Rothersberg. I'm Ben, he's Spence, and we are so happy to be joined by a dear, dear friend of mine, a longtime teammate, a guy who blocked all over the place for me. Um, and uh again, just a dear, dear friend. Uh, my good teammate number 78, Maximilian Starks. Hey, welcome to the basement, brother. Good to be down here, Benjamin. Um, yes, Max and I was good. Okay. There you go. No, Max actually, that's actually a Belgian that he was super excited about because he's been to Belgium drinking Alagash. I don't know. Yeah, Alagash triple. That was last week's episode.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was leftover from Willie Parker.
SPEAKER_03With Willie Parker. So um we are so excited, Max, to have you here. Uh, thank you for taking the time out to um join us to reminisce to talk about Steeler time together when you and I played a long, long, long time ago. Yeah, talk Super Bowls, we're gonna talk uh kind of current state of the Steelers, what's been going on, talk draft. Um, obviously, this show is airing this is this is after this is post-draft. Yeah. So we're gonna actually let you we're filming this before the draft, just so everyone knows. Yes, it's going to air after the draft. So we're gonna see how prophetic you are. We're gonna make you make you um give us your draft predictions. So we'll we'll when this thing airs, we'll see how how good you are, Max. Yeah, because that's obviously what you're doing now. You're part of the media with us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, are we with us? This is all media stuff. I feel we shouldn't be mentioned in the same vein as my max. Oh yeah, he's actual media.
SPEAKER_02We're just we're two we're two schlubs in the basement.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you just got a couple rings. Yeah, that's that's all.
SPEAKER_02Hey, listen, you have a way better studio setup than anyone I've ever been. This is all him.
SPEAKER_03This is people think there's like this big thing. This is just Spence and cameras and boards and computers and stuff over here.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, people always ask, they're like, hey, so so what's the setup like? I'm like, well, Ben says stuff and I record it.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, and that's basically what the show is.
SPEAKER_03And we put up these camera thingies that capture they actually don't come down very often. It's like, hey Spence, take the cameras down with people coming over.
Beer Tasting And 2004 Class Talk
SPEAKER_01Yeah, literally, yeah. The only time I have it, I have to take this down two times a year. New Year's when you have people over for New Year's, and then like a Christmas, usually like a Christmas dinner when family's over. Two times a year. People don't realize they used to think this was a green screen. They're like, oh and I'm like, guys, that's you are overestimating the amount of effort we put into this, just stays up in Ben's house.
SPEAKER_03And so for the fans. This is this is football, and as you guys know, we like to start an episode with a beer. So that's right. Uh we are drinking our beers, but we're going to sample a beer, and this I'm so excited to see the Snifter in Max's hand. Uh, because Max will be the have the largest hands of anybody. Well, Mel Blunt was on here. Mel's got monster hands too, but this is going to be great. So we're we always start it with a beer. Spence is going to give it to us. Yes. Um, and I'm I'm kind of excited as we drink this, Spence, because this is back-to-back guest of the 2004 NFL draft class.
SPEAKER_01Well, you only surround yourself with champions.
SPEAKER_03Yes, champions. That's what we do. That's what we do.
SPEAKER_02I know that I know a lot of stealers talk about 1974, but 2004 is pretty special to us. It is.
SPEAKER_00We should do a comparison of that. Hey, put that on him real quick. Show us the what's my man?
SPEAKER_03This this this actually, that's a full-sized uh mug, guys. Exactly. This is actually a pounder. That's 64 ounces for those of you watching.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is the perpetual IPA from Trogues. All of them are from Trogues. That's one of our favorite breweries on this show. Um the perpetual IPA, I think it's a it's one of their mainstays. It's a great one. It's seven and a half percent. Um are you an IPA guy?
SPEAKER_02I know you have Delphins, but yeah, this is yeah, super up. So I am a um, what is it? What's uh arrogant bastard? Oh. Um out there out of Stone, out of San Diego. Okay's great. Yeah, they're they're they're they're beer garden. I was gonna say it's pretty dope.
SPEAKER_05Call yourself left. You're not an arrogant.
SPEAKER_02Don't you say that? And then my favorite's the double bastard, so it makes it even better. It's like Game of Thrones. So you like the heavy ones.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, that's a nice light IPA. Oh, yeah. That's not hoppy. That's not that hoppy.
SPEAKER_00That's good. Yeah, this is a sweet.
SPEAKER_03I've definitely had that before.
SPEAKER_00Heavy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Like I just like this. This is a I like this one. Not crazy. Uh I like IPAs. It's not crazy hoppy. It's uh it's still seven and a half, though. So you gotta be limited. Responsible. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Drink responsible in the basement like us.
SPEAKER_03I like that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. The basement is fine, and the basic is fine.
SPEAKER_01So that's why we got the little guys. Yeah, exactly.
Max Draft Day Call From Cowher
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Oh man. Well, there's that for you boys. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate that. So, Max, I think since you're here and we talk about the draft, the draft is coming up, so we'll get to that at some point. But 2024, I mean at 20 2004, excuse me. 2004, it was so long ago. Um, was a pretty special draft class in Pittsburgh. We uh actually undrafted Willie Parker. Yeah. You know, we had a great conversation with him. If you guys haven't seen that episode, go check it out. Oh, that was a great episode. Um, fun talking to Willie and getting those stories. But uh, you were third round, I believe. Yeah, I was the third round. Ricardo was second. Yeah, Coakley. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Tusculum. Tusculum College. Where I don't even know where that is. I think it was. Somewhere in Tennessee. Okay, there you go. That's close. Only reason why I know, because my dad lived lived in Nashville. So only reason why I know that's cool.
SPEAKER_03There you go. Well, yeah. Uh that was a what what do you what do you remember of uh that long ago? Were you excited to come to Pittsburgh? I don't like I I was thinking about like my people always ask me, like, what I was like, I I I just I was ready to go anywhere.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the series, and I did not have Pittsburgh on my radar. Me either. Because like literally, I talked to them at the senior bowl, you know, doing the car wash of interviews. And then I Bill Cower came to my pro day for the weigh-in, and that was it. Just want to see how you were doing it. Yeah, exactly. I stood on like this old school like weight scale, looked out to the crowd.
SPEAKER_03We have to we have to like to like move the weight.
SPEAKER_02It's like it's like, yeah, it's like what old school you call the physical and no digital. We're we're an analog era. Okay, we're sorry. So, and and I just remember seeing him do like this. Like he was happy with it. And that was it. He like disappeared. Really? That was the first thing we did. We didn't do any of the, you know, how you do the stretching drills and all the other flexibility stuff.
SPEAKER_03Like, did he did he leave or he just didn't watch you anymore?
SPEAKER_02He was gone.
SPEAKER_03So who else would have been who would have been like like who were the big name guys in your class? Who's your quarterback? Were you were you like Chris? So Rex Grossman? Well, Rex left the U.S.
SPEAKER_02was gone. Okay. So Rex was gone. We had Chris Leek was a freshman. Okay, so he was So we had um Ben Troop was our tight end. Yeah. Gus Scott was a safety, Keywon Ratliff was a DB.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um uh Shannon Snell was our guard, and Ran Carthon, former GM, right? Yeah. Ran was our running back that year. Okay. And so we had some but it wasn't like that.
SPEAKER_03It wasn't like a core, like you're looking for a number one quarterback. Okay, so I was gonna say, did he just he was like he just came just to check your weight and then he's out and not watching anybody else? Yeah, exactly. And it was like that's so not on your radar, he comes, watches that, and you're still just like, yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, he because he because the only news was he was the only head coach that was there. Everybody else was a coordinator or a position coach. Okay, so he was the only head coach there. So that's why, oh man, dude, y'all see Bill Cower out there? And so, but Fish stayed around. Kelvin Fisher was one of our scouts still for the team after all these years. Fish was still there, and funny enough, Larry Zerline was the O-line coach for Cleveland, and he was leading our drills. No way, yeah. Old Z. O Z.
SPEAKER_03Old Z. Who ended up, for those of you don't know, came to Pittsburgh and coached O-line in Pittsburgh for a few years.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Our 43 team, he was our he was our O-line coach. That's crazy. So it was just funny, but yeah, I mean, that was so by the time we got to the jail, I thought it was gonna be a Philadelphia Eagle. Really? Because Philly had me do two private workouts. They then had me do uh uh I flew up to Philly for for one of the visits, and Juan Castillo, their offensive line coach, called me all the time, like checking in, hey, what are you doing? This, that, and the other. Yeah. So I'm thinking in my head, I am a I'm a Philadelphia Eagle. Right. Like, give me, give me chickies and pizza, give me Philly cheesesteaks, we're good, right? You know, just set it and forget it. Right. And and then, yeah, we get to draft day and watching the draft, right? The whole debacle at the beginning with Philip and Eli. And then you go at 11. And I remember Robert Gallagher was the first tackle taken, number two. And and we get there, Vernon went 10. I think Vernon went right before you to Miami, right? At 10. And then now the Eagles are sitting there like 20. I'm like, oh well, I gotta be going there. Then they trade up to 16 and draft Sean Andrews. No way. The tackle from Arkansas that ends up being a guard. No, Alabama, right? Was he Arkansas? Arkansas.
SPEAKER_03Because he's the one that that people talked about Bill Cowern then wanted here for me. Like you said, like him and Kevin Colbert. So the the the story is, right? The rumor is, and it from from Dan Rooney himself. Yeah. Pretty good, pretty good story. Rumor, but truth. What was was that Cowan Colbert wanted Andrews. Oh and then that Dan came in and said, uh-uh, I want Ben. Like I according to them, it's like I I missed on we missed on Merino, but I missed another one. We're taking Ben. So that that's so that's but but that's why that name, that's what bringing a bone used to that name.
SPEAKER_02And then ended up, he only he only played a couple years in the league. Yeah. So he he didn't even fit because the biggest thing, I trained with him, right? Okay. Uh all of our combine training was together. So it was him and Bo Lacey. Bo Lacey was his right tackle. He was a left tackle. No way. So Bo in our class, part of the 3-6 mafia. There you go. Um, in that draft, was um, and he just he had an eating disorder, right? Like he could not, like, we would go do cardio literally for like 45 minutes on the stairmaster. Yeah, and then and then I kind of stayed near where he was, so I drop him off and oh, Max Man, pull by the Popeyes. Like, like Sean, we just did 45 minutes of car. Like, I was that's kind of how I feel. Yeah, was he Polynesian? Yeah, exactly. So so it was like, so it was crazy. So, but that was the last tackle technically drafted. Um, and he was still a guard. I still counted him as a guard, but we only had two tackles drafted in the first round, which is which is crazy to think right now. Crazy because you you'd have two in the top 10 yeah easily now, and I was a fourth tackle taken that year. Because 75 picks left because Jacob Rogers was the only other one tackle from USC. He went to Dallas at the end of the second. Wow, and he just he never played because he couldn't clear medical.
SPEAKER_03I feel like sometimes too, though, like when when guys start going off the board, it's like okay, we gotta start taking, you know, like it's like okay, one goes in the first five, they're like they start going off the board quick because everyone's like, we got to take them. And when it doesn't happen, it's like, okay, we can kind of sit on this for a little while. Yeah. Um, so that had to be a big like kind of shocker for you, right? Like thinking you might go 20 or 16 to Philly, all of a sudden we're in like the seven third round, 75th pick, and you get a call.
SPEAKER_02And the funny thing was after Philly didn't select, I was like, oh, well, maybe the Giants and they took SNE at the top of the second round. I'm like, I don't know who it's gonna be. So I'm sitting there throughout the second round. And the good thing is, I could say this, Ben, you and I were drafted day one draft picks. Because back then, the first and third round was in was the same day. That's right. But I remember we got to the end of the second. I was just like, you know what? F it. I I'm like, we're done. Because I was I was sitting at my best friend uh Josh Castor's house, and it was me, it was me, Josh, and both my both my older and younger brother. And I was just like, you know what, guys, man, whatever. I'm like, we're just gonna leave.
SPEAKER_03We all like y'all were like like tuned into the screen like we're watching.
SPEAKER_02And then like I'm walking back and forth, pacing. I was trying to play like, you know, any young bachelor pad, just Josh's house. There's a pool table as a dining room, just something, yeah in the middle, just right there. Yeah, so we're playing pool. I'm trying to take my mind off, and I'm like, you know what? Let's just go to the bar. And so so we're like, so we turned the TV off and we're walking out the door, and on my little sprint phone, the one that had the little antenna you pulled up, the silver one. I see it, and caller ID is a new thing. I'm like, 412 area. What is this? So Josh is from Pittsburgh, right? No, Josh is like, dude, that's Pittsburgh. Pick it up, pick it up, pick it up. And so I pick it up. I'm standing in the doorway about to go tie one off. I wish it would have been in the bar. That would have so much in the bar. That would have been great. Um, whatever. No, talk longer. And and uh and it was Omar, Khan. Okay, Omar was like the con man. Yeah, the con artist, right? They were like, they were like, hold on, Coach Cower's making a decision. I'm like, but you called me. What do you think? Yeah, hold on. So Joshua's back in the house and he turns the TV on, and I'm just standing in the doorway, like waiting. Like I'm like I'm a kid in time out. Yeah. And then he's like, and then Coach Cower gets on and he's like, hey, hey Max. I was like, hey, Coach Cower. He's like, I got one question for you. I was like, okay. What do you think about playing in snow? I was like, is there a football out there? Yeah, are we just playing? We just make it in snow. Snowman, what are we doing? Am I you know am I am I Anna and Elsa? Like, do you want to know the snowman? You know, what is it? I'm like, yeah, there's a ball. I was like, I'm ready to play. He's like, good, because we drafted you. He's like, congratulations, you're a Pittsburgh steel. I was like, okay, and then Josh came running out because and then we walked in and it was a big thing.
SPEAKER_03He had to be through the roof.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he was so he's like, Man, you're going to my hometown where I was born. And my brothers were excited. So then we still went to that bar right afterwards. Hey, man, mind you, we will not get a missed opportunity to party. We go in the bar, and the draft is still going on. It's the end of the is going to the end of the third round, and we're sitting at the bar, and and the bartender comes up, he looks at me, looks at the screen, looks at me. I'm like, bro, I just I just wanted a Long Island ice tea. Yeah. He's like, he's like, but you. I'm like, who's who's who's weren't you just drafted by Pittsburgh? I was like, yeah. What are you doing here? I said, I live here. Yeah. I'm like five minutes away. Go right now. Literally live five minutes away. He's like, he's like, take a lap around the bar and then come back and talk to me. So I walk around the bar and I'm like, man, what the hell is he talking? And I started looking. I was like, oh, Pittsburgh Stealer pennant.
SPEAKER_03Oh, really? Lynn Swan jersey. Franco here. I'm like steal the bar.
SPEAKER_02He's like, this is a store. You don't have to pay for anything if you're about to be a stealer.
SPEAKER_03There it was. So that night we had a really good time. That's awesome. Wow. What the yeah, it's a movie. It's just a movie, man. Yeah, that's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02And then my first trip here, I'm I'm riding in a car with you as we go to Stan Savrin's show. Jeez. That week that week later when we came back from minicamp.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we got picked up at the airport together. The baggage came out.
SPEAKER_03Did Phil Kryler pick us up? Yeah, Phil Kryler picked up that little car we sent in the back. You know the Steelers. We're in the back.
SPEAKER_02He's got a Camry, baby.
Super Bowl XL Run And Snow Football
SPEAKER_03Full-size truck. Oh my goodness. What that was that was a long time ago, Max. Yeah. It was um, it's funny because I was telling Spence a little bit too, and I don't not try to fast forward too far, but I felt like just because that that story feels so like right, and I was thinking back on all your years of playing here, and it felt like at a certain point, because we're actually we're just talking about Trey Essex a little bit ago, uh, who's in town for the draft stuff. I felt like you two were very similar in this, and even Ramon too. Yeah, I felt like at some point in your career, the Steelers did everything they could to like get rid of you guys, but then realized we need you. Yeah. And so, like, I I know that, like, I don't know like why that just came to my mind, but it's like, because of that, that's a great story. And we were here, and we we, you know, you won two Super Bowls, and we we're gonna get right back into Super Bowl 40. But the fact of the matter is just like, yeah, they kept like, you know what, we can we can always do something better, but no, you really couldn't. Y'all really couldn't. You didn't realize that. But but anyway, uh, I I do want to to get into that Super Bowl run because obviously our um you would have come you came in, and uh, if I remember Marvel Smith was our left tackle, yeah. Um, was not Barrett Brooks, Barrett Brooks. Kendall. Kendall's the right tackle, yeah. It was right guard. Oh, right.
SPEAKER_02Oliver Ross was our rookie year. Yes. And then remember, because we went 15 and 1, he signed that big deal with Arizona. Yes, and left him for the year. Yes, yes, yes. And then that's when that that opened the door for you for me and Trey to and they drafted Trey, and then we competed for the right tackle job.
SPEAKER_03Correct. Yes, I so yeah, I knew it was obviously uh Allen and Jeff and um and Kendall, but you know, coming in.
SPEAKER_02Remember, Ketrick Vincent was right guard first year because. Because Kendall Kendall uh was out because of his diagnosis. Yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_03That's right. That was, and I keep telling people all the time that, man, I got so lucky to come to a team that was full of veteran players. Like that line, like that's a that was a good veteran group. You know, and and and and Bettis and Ward and Burris and L. And I was I was telling I was telling Spence, speaking of Antoine Randall, I'll never forget the time that he he was getting ready to go out to practice. He had his cleats on and he was all ready to go to practice. And he grabbed your your cleat and put his foot with a cleat on it. Full spatted cleats.
SPEAKER_02No, he ran out to the field. It was um so I had no shoes. And we got to be on the field. I'm like, and L's just running around like a kid with snowshoes on for the first time. And I'm and also full L. I want to he ruined my insoles that I had, my custom insoles that I had made because he had spikes in there. You owe us in there. What do you say insoles? I'm like, oh, so so yes, but yeah, now they're gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_03They took those shoes, Max's shoes, they hung over the equipment room door for forever. They might still be there. These two gigantic shoes just hanging there over the door. They look like moon boots. It was unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02What size, what size shoes? So those ones were 19s that they made. They were the field turf editions, and they look like straight moon boots because they were all white.
SPEAKER_01Who makes that? General Motors?
SPEAKER_02No, it was unbelievable.
SPEAKER_03The biggest, but but yeah, and Antoine made me think of that. But yeah, but coming into that that team was we were very lucky to play very blessed to have a good group. But yeah, and then obviously our first year and and all the stuff that happened there was a kind of a whirlwind. But then get into our second year, especially just sitting here talking to Willie about some of the stuff. Take me through what you remember. More, I guess, like towards the end of the year, right? Like we had to go on this run and we had to do this and I mean, but not necessarily into the postseason, but just what you remember. Because we we actually had a great conversation with Willie. It was fun to talk to Willie Parker about Jerome Bettis. Obviously, being in that room as a rookie. Yeah, he was telling the stories about how Jerome had the sleeping bag in the back of the running back room. I was like, really? He just laid down in the back of the room and like he said everyone's a while he'd pop his head up and say something, and go and Coach Hulk would be like, Will you get cut, you don't need to worry about what he's doing back there? Something that was just it was hilarious. But Jerome Bats, man. But we had talked about like just like how good Jerome was, right? At being a big back with power, but having the quickness of the nimbleness. The nimbleness was crazy, which you wouldn't think of a big guy. And it led us down a little bit of a of a path of remembering the play at home in the snow with Erlocher when he meets him in the hole at the goal line. Yes. And it's like this it's everything that you want Pittsburgh to be, that you want Jerome Bettis to be, that you want Brian Urlacher. I mean, he's a Hall of Fame superstar. Yeah. And and just that whole thing. And that was obviously one of the games we had to make this little run. So, like, like take me through anything that you want of that before before postseason. Like, we'll get to get the postseason. But but you, what do you remember? That played you, I mean, just all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was over my side. That was right. That was counter 32-0. Yeah, and I just remember because Alan, Alan kind of almost tripped over my heel because we went to the biggest thing. Yeah, he said, the moon boom. The moon moon away. And snow, my shoes white, you can't see it. You can't see it. Blends in. Um, but I just remember like that play, we had a deuce block, me and Kendall deuced down, and and I felt Alan kind of come off the edge and kind of felt like a little bit of my heel get clipped. And all I know is I'm on the ground, I look up, and I'm watching the play from my camera angle, like here, and just seeing him just absolutely truck stick air lacker. And I was like, ooh, like like I'm not actually in the game helping. Um, and it was just an amazing play. But but I'll tell you, before that, I don't know if you remember, earlier in the first half, we ran we ran counter counter 39. Okay. And he bounced it to the outside. Like, oh, 39 boss. And he got to the sidelines, he hit one dude, tiptoed down the sideline, came back to balance, and then finished it off. It was like a maybe a 14-yard run. But watching him hit a dude, keep the contact balance and straddle the line and come in, and it was just like, are you kidding me? Yeah, like that was but that but that was JB. That's who Jerome was. And you know, just in that game, you know, we you know, that was the must-win, right? Because we had we had we had the meeting the night before and we had the conversation, right? And it was like, what are we going to be as a unit, right? What are we gonna be as a team? What are they gonna say about the 2005 Pittsburgh Steelers team? And it just felt right. And when that snow came in, that was the first game I ever played in snow, by the way. Never played. This is just all we're talking about. It took a year and a half, but I finally got to that snow. Um, and it was just like it was like one of those NFL films, rites of odds.
SPEAKER_03It was the perfect snow because it wasn't like that blistering, like, oh, like the pictures, it's the flakes coming down. It's like it's just straight down.
SPEAKER_02Perfect, yeah. Yeah, and if it's like catching that perfect angle is like, this is what you think northern football should be, right? And I mean, and I even though I did the Snow Globe game against the Browns a couple years ago, that was ridiculous snow. Yeah, like that was not that was blown, can't see, it's different. You can't see it's it's swirling, but this was like perfect, big chunks falling. And that's actually funny enough, the first game where I met my now wife, Tiffany, Tiffany came to that game. No way, I'd never met her before, family, friends. You came to see you. She she can't she didn't know I was on the field for like three quarters. Because you were laying on the ground. I was like, I had my moon boots, they they were camouflaged because she knew nothing about football. But that was actually funny. So it's a significant moment why I remember that game even more so because that's the first time I met her. Wow, it was that was at that Chicago game. But I just I remembered that one, and then I remember as we kind of went through, and then we got to that Detroit game at the end of the year, and that was the last game of the season, and that was Jerome's last home game. Okay, so it was like it was like almost one of those like precursor moments where you're like, we're playing Detroit for for a chance to go into the playoffs to go to Detroit, yeah. And it's Jerome's last home game, and then of course, fast forward, it becomes his last game. Right in Detroit. So it was like it was like all those like we got we can't lose this game again. And I remember you remember Sean Rogers, big baby? Yeah. So Sean was still playing for Detroit then, right? Never forget, we're halfway through the second quarter. And Sean is looking at me because we have been we have been running 32 uh double at him all day. And he just got pissed. Because you know, when when Wiz and and um and Russ got together, they're like, Well, until they stop it, right? The six-minute offense, right? And we run and Sean just looks at me, he's like, Listen, bro, if you hit me one more time in my hip, he's like, I'm I'm gonna lose my religion out here. He's like, I'm not playing for anything, Max. Yeah, he called me by my first name. He's like, not playing for anything. I was like, we get it. Y'all want to win, you're gonna win this game. Stop hitting my hip. I just want to go fishing and get a walk to Texas. I'm gonna walk. What are we doing?
SPEAKER_05I'm like, I was like, what?
SPEAKER_02Hey, you know, as a young guy, this is my second year to lead, right? I'm not stopping. First year start. I'm like, dude, I'm attacking a Pro Bowl level guy. I'm gonna so I kept hitting his. He was pissed, and then Hamp came over and talked to me because I was complaining to him because they played in Texas. Yep. Oh my God. It was but I remember that moment, like for that last game to get in, yeah, like just kind of how significant that was, but also how funny that was in that last game.
Colts Playoff Chaos And Loudest Stadium
SPEAKER_03That's so funny. You know, we're talking about, like, I was thinking about that because like Willie, obviously, Parker was a different back than Jerome. Yeah. Right, really fast, getting in front of people and this, that, and the other. Maybe right in there and slow it down a little bit. But it was funny because he was talking as we were moving into the postseason, like just about you know, the craziness of what we had to do, like the first sixth seed to go and going to Cincy, yeah, which Cincy was kind of just crazy. Like, I just remember the Carson Palmer thing. I mean I feel like that's what that game was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was this that was the highlight. It was back and forth, but because we had had some good matchups during the season. Like, I remember Rudy Johnson was just running roughshod in that game, R.I.P. to Rudy Johnson, but I just remember how back and forth that game was. Said had had like three touchdowns in that game or something like that.
SPEAKER_03Was that the game uh Antoine threw a touchdown pass? Or Cedric threw a touchdown? Someone threw like a reverse pass.
SPEAKER_02Um Cedric threw it to it to Antoine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So it was literally the same play we ran in the Super Bowl, just with different people. Yeah. Um, and so I just remember how tough that battle was. And like you said, but the thing was, once Carson went down, once Chemo, you know, fell into it, and that kind of took over. Oh, so it's like everything else is a blur for that for sure. For sure. Because it was just like that was it. Yeah. Like was what Kitna came in. Florida guy, right? Kitten is a Florida guy, isn't he? Yeah. Uh I thought John Kitten went to Florida. Or some went to Florida. Kitten is a Florida guy. I'm telling you. He's a Florida guy from the state. Did he go to Florida? No. I wonder if he went to FSU. No, he didn't go to UF. Okay. Because we had we had Doug Johnson back then. We had um Jesse Palmer, all those guys. Okay. Yeah, I don't remember John Kitna being on the list. Okay, I could be wrong. I probably am wrong.
SPEAKER_03Um, but yeah, that game kind of was a what was a whatever. But the next game was, yeah. The next game, there's some there's a little bit of memories going on with that one. Oh my god. Well, you know, I remember one of the things that that I tell people about that game, which was I thought was special, was that we came out throwing the ball. Keith Miller, right? Touch we were we threw the ball, and now I think it caught him off guard because like you said, we're we're Jerome, we're Willie, we're running, we're gonna do this at that point. Two tights, 12 personnels. It was like Heath Miller rookie season, Lapoco post-corneo. He's hit that little quick, skinny post, and we went down the field early on him, and I think like back-to-back series and score, but yeah. We did mostly throwing, yeah. And obviously that was something I remember as a quarterback, but but everyone else is gonna remember the end of the game. Uh, I thought it was unique. You know what? I guess I should let's start with this. What do you remember about the fumble? Like what like do you that was the second fumble?
SPEAKER_02Okay, because Jerome had fumbled earlier in the game. I don't remember that. So yeah, it you know why? Because I jumped on top of it, so we didn't lose possession. Okay, but it fell in the end zone. So I thought I scored my first touchdown. You get a fellow. Did you get up and celebrate?
SPEAKER_05Oh my god, I'm celebrating.
SPEAKER_02In the playoffs fight against the Colts, and then it ran flight. Get back in the huddle. Like we just keep possession. It goes from the spot of the fumble. You can't advance a fumble until he ends up. Oh my goodness. I was like, man, I was so hot. I was so mad. I was like, they stole my touchdown. He jumped in the stands, he can't breathe. Oh, yeah. I was I was about to walk the dog. He he fumbled twice in the middle. So he fumbled the first, yeah. Never fumbles. Yeah, never fumbles. Wow. And so when it came to that one, once again, running counter 32-0, right? To the right side. And and I just remember I didn't hear boos or silence, right? Because we're we're in Indianapolis. And you remember the first time deafening.
SPEAKER_03They cheated so bad. They cheated so bad. They pumped in more crowd noise. Oh my god. You know, that's good. I'm glad you're because I'm having alignment, especially if I'm on the because you're on the so as Max is the as a tackle, he's gonna be one of the furthest people from me at the times in the huddle. If it depends on what sideline we're on, and I remember, I will never forget, and I tell people all the time, I have never experienced anything so loud in my life. Never being in the huddle, being on the bench trying to talk to someone and screaming as loud as I can to just communicate. And I'm like, this is not normal. And I I knew they were cheating, and I knew they pumped in the noise when we played it in the postseason and it wasn't as loud. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02How is it not as loud in a postseason game as it was during the you you could hear individual fans in the huddle when we got in that playoff game? And I'm like, bro, this is crazy. And so Kendall and I kept looking at each other like, are you serious? Are you serious? And so I'll never forget. So in that first game, and Trey was starting at left tackle at this game because Marvell was injured. Oh, yeah. So Trey and Trey's going against Freeney. Yeah, there we go. And Trey is just uh welcome to the NFL, rookie. Like, I just give it up. And I just remember we go to the sidelines and we're trying to talk. He's just he's spinning everywhere.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's like a top. He's a big thing. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02We I mean we called him Tasmanian Devil. Yeah, because he was just, and then Mathis wasn't that much different, just Mathis was taller, so it was easier to get a handle on it. Those two edge rushers, those two dudes. It's like what we had.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'd say it's different because we know we had Harrison and Woodley and Porter and Clark. I mean, you had some good back, but but not like those guys. Those were they were different, they were different rushers.
SPEAKER_02They were they were all speed, too. And it was, and I just remember I tried to call a fan out to Kendall, and I'm literally as close as you are, screaming at the top of my lungs, and he is just looking at me. He can't hear a word. And so, and Trey is Trey's trying to describe this, but you see the motions, right? Because it's so loud on the sidelines, too. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, I don't know. That's what it that's what it looked like. It was like you just disappeared off, and so and then he just goes like this, it goes assist down. That's right for him. It was so loud, but it yeah, but it was so different there. Like you said, getting back to that play, I was listening for the that negative point because we had scored. I didn't hear it, I heard a huge cheer, and I'm like, what the? And then next thing I know, I see Nick Harper taking off and then Kendall gets up and Kindle. Kindle was digging. Kindle was digging, he was on the highaboo, so he was he was there, and then you were there, and you were like, uh, uh, uh, and then boom, got him on the tackle. But I was like, oh my god. I was like, if you didn't make that play for how tight that game score, we would have had to go down and it would have literally been so loud, and they probably would have probably snuck in the crowd noise for sure.
SPEAKER_03They would have found a way to pump that in. Yeah, that's it, it's crazy because well, and then I I forgot for some reason that Vander, I mean I knew Vanderjack missed it, but like that was just a tie. Like the the kid was the tie, and we had to go like you know play it, play extras. But the fact that he missed it, and and Willie mentioned something when he when he was talking about that that feeling of after that game, or or when that happened, I think he said, when it when the fumble happened, he said, man, we were on the sideline and we were like kind of devastated, but we were all but it was more like all right, let's go. Like we we're gonna we we believe in our defense, the defense is gonna get this done. Like we yeah, it felt like, and and I'm gonna I'll bring it back around to this because I thought it was interesting how he made this and made this this point, this analogy, and I didn't think about it really until he said it, and I'm like, man, I think you're right. After we won the Super Bowl, it was like oh oh, like what that's it? Like we're like that what what's next, like what's next almost? Like kind of like this, but after we won in indie, it felt like maybe it's because we just kept going, we were gonna keep going. I don't know, but it felt more like a bigger win in indie than it did in in Detroit almost. That feels weird, but I he said that I'm like, man, I yeah, I think you're kind of right there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because even when we won in Denver, and they remember they brought the AFC championship trophy into the locker room, yeah. It was like, eh. Yeah, I know. But did you see what we did last week? I know it felt so much different. And I think because I think also because it was Peyton, right? And Peyton was that face and they were and remember, they were supposed to be the crown princes, yeah, right? They were the one seed, they had the bye. This team was 14-2, they couldn't be stopped. Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Edger and James. And we went in there and we absolutely took it to them because they took it to us the first time, and to get that kind of vindication and that revenge, there was so much more emotion in it. Whereas Denver, I was like, ah, Jake Plummer. Jake Plumber, I didn't know Jake Plummer. I know. I was like, and um, and it was uh, and Lynch was older, yeah, played safety for so there wasn't as much bravado, like there wasn't that marquee matchup, right? Right, right. Yeah, like you versus Peyton was a huge matchup, you versus Carson was it, but like you said, Carson gets injured. That's the story and that's the story of that one, and then we get to Denver, and it's like but yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_03No, I did that that the AFC championship game in Denver felt anticlimactic. Yeah. Because now, you know, that you because of how big the indie game was and and getting that win, which obviously we you know, feeling it for Jerome and getting him back to to Detroit. And I and we were talking to Willie about that, like just how special that week was for like Jerome, his family going to his his house for dinner and all the stuff that went along with it. Um, do you remember? I remember someone told me at one point when you get to the Detroit, like when the balls kicked off, like take a mental picture. And I remember I could still see it. I mean, it's crazy, all the flash bulbs and everything.
SPEAKER_02Back when there were still flashbulbs.
Detroit Super Bowl Week And Willie’s Run
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, when you were exactly, yeah, exactly. We're analog air. We're analog air. Um I I I I I would definitely want to talk about the touchdown, Willie's touchdown run because of how special that was. Yeah, and I'll get is there anything that like leading up to that? Like that that I mean, I remember Jerome running out by himself, like all that was just really cool. I was wearing his jersey. Yeah, when we got off the plane. Because you remember my cousin made all those jerseys. No way, really.
SPEAKER_02He made all those green number six jerseys, yeah. So and it was like, I was like, you gotta rush it here, you gotta get it here, because it's right after the Denver game. I was like, dude, you got a week to get all the jerseys, man. Let's go. And and you know, and and that's obviously back in the era where we were all baggy everything. So these things bagger the better. Like I pulled it out, I was like, dude, this is a sheet now. Like my children can literally go to bed in this. It was so humongous, but it's like, but like you said, getting to do that for Jerome and getting off that plane, everybody had handicam. Yes, I still have a photo of what we got on the plate, and you had your handicam, because obviously, so another peek behind on the flight. Mr. Benjamin Rothesberger here sat in front of me on the plane. Literally the seat in front of me. And Ben would test out the chair every time when I was seated, and he would rock his seat back into it and look back like, yep, yep, this is about right. Keep me on your toes, brother. And then when I got the opportunity, because all the veterans back then sat in first class, the moment I got my one shot to move to first class, who was the guy that said, Nope, can't go? I was like, What do you mean I can't go? It's like, no, you're not messing up our ritual and our routine. You're gonna sit back here behind me, and that is it. You have an open seat next to you, spread wide, you're not going to first class.
SPEAKER_03Superstition tradition takes over everything. What are we talking about here?
SPEAKER_02So for nine years, I rode behind this guy for every home game. Mind you, we also shared a locker next to each other. We spent a lot of time. We spent an ordinate amount of time to get.
SPEAKER_03I used to mess with Max. So the locker would have like these little like the petitions, you know? Yeah. Max and his shoe, if this is that petition right here, his shoe touched out, be like, Max, we gotta slide this shoe. I would just slide. Nudge it over. Because he's like, there's no petitioner. I'm like, no, that's an invisible petition. The petitioning extended.
SPEAKER_02It goes all the way to the other side in perpetuity. Mind you, he had the clubhouse though. He had he had the corner suite, and then he also had the the corner inside of the corner suite. No, you can't throw people to see your clubhouse.
SPEAKER_03Well, you're retired. Statute of limitation. I hate it from the media. Listen, you have a chair and everything in there. You could see, you could see out the crack, and people be like, they'd be the media'd be waiting. They're like, man, Ben's not he, where is he? And I'd be sitting there looking at him, like, oh, there's no one here. Don't know him. The guy, the guys would know, and they'd start laughing. I had a fridge in there, everything was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was awesome. Okay, back to simple. Super Bowl. I I want to ask about the touch Willie's touchdown run because he brought some great insight to me that I don't remember. Is he said that they called, it was like he thought it was 30, 38 power, 38 counters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, some so he thought it was gonna be counter 36 power. Okay. And it would be in counter 34 pike because we were in 11 personnel.
SPEAKER_03Okay, there you go. And he said that you guys we ran it in the first half and he bounced it outside. Yeah, no good. And then he told a pretty cool story about a halftime going in, and Alan and and is it just Alan or the coaches were like, hey, listen, this is this is gonna be it's gonna hit. We're gonna run it again, yeah, and it's gonna be and it's gonna be successful. And then obviously, I'd forgot too that it was so early in the second half. He thought it was like the first like second play or something. It was early. Yeah, it was early. Yeah, we were early in that drive. Yeah. So do you remember like that like first half of him bouncing it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and pissed as always because every time we would set up the perfect counter or double, and Willie being fast Willie Parker, right? FWP would bounce everything and would not allow us to develop the blocks. I was like, Willie, stay tight. Like you, you just you get frustrated because you're like, if you hit this on the line where you're supposed to hit it, this play is gonna bust for 20, 30 yards. Now, did I know it was gonna be 75 yards? Absolutely not. But I remember like it was like, hey, Willie, keep it in line. Like you have a good offensive line, like let them do their job. You kind of blow everything away because then you get fast flow backers over the top, and and they're not staying so that we can work the double team up to the second level. And so because he held that, I just watched when we motioned Heinz in motion, I saw I saw Bulware, Michael Bower, who I played against in college from from FSU, the safety from FSU. He over he remember he over rotated and he went to the opposite hash. And I was like, oh my god, I just got tatupu left. Lo for tatupu. And when the play snapped, I just remember knocking the defensive tackle right in his hip, knocking him down. Kendall ends up pancaking him, and then I work up to Lofa and Lofa's still standing there, so I kind of grab him, and then as he goes, I kind of wheel to my right, and the next thing you know, I just feel that whoosh behind me, and then I and then I look as well. I was like, there is nobody, nobody there. It was ridiculous. Yeah, but it was a perfectly designed play.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's why I meant because obviously Alan got in there and we asked Willie, I'm like, when did you know? Like, like yeah, what when did you know? He said, once I got through, he goes, the safety, he goes, I was told to work the safety, like I was going to sideline and then put my foot in the ground to get north. Yeah, he goes, once I got past that safety and linebacker, he goes, it was over. He goes, I yeah, I saw the safety back there. That safety wasn't. I said, Willie, he had an angle. He goes, he didn't have an angle. Like zero chance. But even if he was like, that's Willie was stupid.
SPEAKER_02So straight line speed. Oh.
SPEAKER_03And so like it was it was just cool to hear, like, you know, to see that because you actually worked up to the you know, like you said, second level, and you were up there.
SPEAKER_02I wheeled off Tatupu at linebacker. I was playing the mic. And I knew because I saw where Bulware was, and I was like, if I seal Tatu, I'm like, who else is that? And then I looked and I'm like, oh, he's gone. Yeah, he's gone. And he did exactly that. That that that's real tight. Yep.
SPEAKER_01I think it's so funny to see how frustrated you get when Willie go runs outside. Like, I so how many 32 doubles he ruined?
SPEAKER_0332 double was supposed to be in tight, like right like at the guard, basically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, essentially at the guard's butt.
Blocking For Ben And Holding Reality
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I've asked a couple uh O line guys this question. I'm always curious because you did you you didn't have to block the most um stationary quarterback. Yeah, you were blocking for somebody who um a little bit, yes.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I get it. I get it all over the place.
SPEAKER_02The most viral thing I remember was after I left, this was like 16 or 17 when they brought in the buddy Tevins, like remote controlled um dummies. Oh gosh, I forgot about those things. Wait, they they bring those, and you were like, all right, Ben, we're gonna work with these, and you just started just like bowling over each of them as opposed to just moving out of the way. I was like, that that's what I had to deal with for nine years.
SPEAKER_01Well, so when Ben when Ben would extend plays and get out of the pocket, like what was it like for you guys? Was that something that's like okay, keep the play alive, or was it was it the frustration you're talking about with Willie?
SPEAKER_02No, I mean, like when you're in the moment, it was it was yeah, it was a mix of both. Because here's the thing. So early in my early in my career, right, you know, we because remember we would reset the hots and everything, and you'd be like, what? I was waiting for that safety to come through. Like we'd have these conversations. So that's at my right tackle days. So at that side, Ben can see everything, right? But when I moved to left tackle, the thing that kept getting me was when he would drift and move, he would get like right behind me. Might put my hand on you, you never know. He'll give you one of these, like, scoot out the way. I'm like, you're in my space. You know, it's like you have my office, man. And so, and but but I always knew because the defensive ends would stop rushing and would start doing this, reaching over my shoulder, trying to get at him. And he would just be back there. I'm like, why are you behind me? He's like, he's like, well, the wall's better.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's gonna get over here and hide. You know how hard it is for someone to go through if my hands on Max's back like this, to get through Max to get to me, we got a lot of we got a good chance. Yeah. But it it had to be, I mean, to I'll piggyback that. I I was a little bit, I was all over the place at times. I understand that, especially early on. Yeah, uh, it had to be unusual because, like a running back that you Jerome Bettis, he's gonna hit that hole. He's gonna be patient. Yeah, Willie Parker, you know, you think about Le'Veon Bell, you think about some of these guys that are like to uh yeah, you know, Le'Veon was definitely patient, but they would bounce that. And that 30, that 32 double, like you know me holding how many times old line meet call for holding because they're expecting it to come if I'm an outside, it's coming here and I'm blocking like this, and all of a sudden the ball bounces out here. I'm like, oh wait, why is it why is my guy going this way? And and you're like trying to drive with him, right?
SPEAKER_02And so now colors getting exposed, so you're getting this, yeah, and it's easy. And your ump at that time can see that your referee, yeah, they can see it. So he got so many holding calls.
SPEAKER_01So that's an interesting thing. I'm I'm don't know if you can tell by my size, never played the position. Um, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, what how how many times you are you seeing like those holding calls being the the runner's fault?
SPEAKER_02Like now when you're calling the games, you're like, oh, I would say there's a good 40-45% of them probably are just under half. Yeah, yeah, could be avoided if they stay tight. Because once again, our job, and this is why I always tell people I said the difference between a clutch and a hold is a flag. So when you're in tight and everything's coming right there in a big mass of humanity, it's clutching when you're inside here. Yeah, it's a hold when it's outside the framework, or you have a hand on the shoulder because your back is not following, or else I would have taken a different footwork. I would have taken a wider angle to cut the guy off if you were gonna bounce to the outside. Right. I'm expecting you here, so I need to be more middle. And so I can even play the guy a little bit outside because I can turn him at the last second. But when you bounce six, seven, eight yards wide, how do you know what's going on?
SPEAKER_03Which is exactly where a quarterback like me, when I was doing that stuff, was really hard because as a tackle, whether it's whatever side you're on, you're expecting if you're on the right side of the quarterback to be sitting on like the pocket is created where you're gonna be, you know, from like a better left cheek somewhere as you're setting a pocket wide. And all of a sudden, if I'm if if if and I'm not speaking for you, but I just know because I I did a lot, is if Max is a right tackle. Yeah, if he's setting like right like this, and all of a sudden I decide to get out of the pocket and he's blocking his guy like this, and all of a sudden his guy starts running away. Same thing as if his guy's going after he's naturally holding on, kind of, because he's like blocking. He's like, and that's when the penalties happen, and that's a quarterback's fault too, because there's so many times. But I think at some point I assume that you know, you guys, all you guys, I mean all the linemen I play with, you start learning. Like, because I remember early on, like Allen and Jeff and Marvell, though, Ken, those guys hated me. Oh I mean, hated it. It was like, because could you go with Tommy Maddox, too, who's now they go from Cordell, who was probably all over the place, yeah, to Tommy for two years, who's just a he's Tommy's a true pocket, he could throw that ball all over the place. It was like to then me, who like was like, okay, option one's not open, I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so it's like I made, I mean, I made a lot of things happen, but it's hard. Sure. So it takes it, it takes time. And I think guys got like as you get used to it, you're like, okay, I know that Ben's could be doing something here. I think you guys probably felt at some point, like, if you're setting wide as a tackle and I feel that little step-up pocket, like I might be out of there. Exactly. And so I think it probably took a while, but I think at some point you all start getting used to it a little bit.
SPEAKER_02And and we had those conversations, right? Because I mean, we watch film, you look at it and you're like, okay, if Ben feels pressure here, here's what we can expect. Right. Kind of so for a degree. So now you kind of set, and Kendall and I were really good at communicating. And so Kendall, you know, and Kendall was so fat, you know, he had the twitches. He was the one that got all the stars fast. Fast. You said fat. I said fat.
SPEAKER_03We're gonna check that Kendall. I did not think you, I just wanted to know, Ken, I did not think you were fat. I thought you were fine, some physical specimen right here. Fixing and post. No, don't you dare fix that. You keep that in.
SPEAKER_02So so he would actually put the word underneath. Exactly. Close caption. This is what he meant. Translation. So he was quick off the snap. So I had to learn how to speed up with him when we would set double teams. Yeah. Because I'm like, Kendall's literally, as soon as you say, Yeah, he's gone. Yeah. And God forbid it's a hard count. Now, I'm not as bad as Juicy, yeah, but God forbid it's a hard count. Kendall and Kendall just look at you and just do this and just walk back to the huddle when we have a false stuff going on. Like, you knew what it was. So the ball, you're closer to the ball than I am. Why are you jumping? But but that was one of the things we would communicate. So we knew when we had twist games, especially like, okay, if we can kind of pin this, it'll give you a little bit more freedom to escape out the right side. Right. Because we're like, that's what Ben, if it doesn't work, he's gonna, he's gonna leak right. Yeah. So it's like, well, why not just create the funnel for him so it makes it a little bit easier? Or if he just because he doesn't feel the pressure, he can just kind of sit behind the right side. And so it took, I mean, we were probably what, it's probably like 12 games in, I want to say. I think, I think right around Chicago was when we were like, okay, we kind of got to boosted on what on what Ben likes to do. Yeah. And so, but yeah, no, you were definitely one of those that it was like, it was like, where is he at? Like you want you, you want the little biker, you know, a little side mirror. You want to still back there.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so back there.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay, he's still back there. All right, nobody's nobody's cheered or booed yet, so I guess he still got the ball.
Super Bowl XLIII Final Drive Breakdown
SPEAKER_03Well, that I feel like that like is a perfect segue into Super Bowl 43. Because obviously, the like and and we can talk about whatever you want on that, but but to me, it's the last drive. Oh, and I'll never forget going into that last drive, and it's our ball, and we're down. And I because I always I'm a grew up a Niners fan, Joe Montana. Yeah, and I remember the the story that the Niners tell of Joe Montana coming in the huddle and being like, hey guys, like the the team's all stressed and whatever. And Joe Montana says, Hey guys, is that John Candy over there in the front row? You know, like let's settle him down. Yeah, and I'll never forget on the sideline. I I try to do some sort of a like like let's sell everybody down, first play penalty. I'm like, you know what? My pep talks don't work so well. This this isn't this isn't going so well. You're not supposed to go backwards the first play.
SPEAKER_02My speech didn't hit.
SPEAKER_03Did just say something about it. I forgot the punchline. Yeah. Um, but going backwards, I was but you you were left tackle that game. Um, and and and going in like what what's your I uh you know, we'll get to the last play, but what do you remember like that that whole series, it felt like just a whole Modge Podge of like little scrambles, little this, like just just yeah, we were doing things all over the place. We were just we were just getting it done. Getting it done.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's exactly what it was. And I just remember, like you said, like you had that moment, as soon as we, you know, we lined up for kickoff and we're sitting over. I just remember looking at it, it's like, hey, we're built for this. Like we they have doubted us this entire year, and look where we're at, right? And so it was like, we're gonna mess up, but mess up doing it 100%. Yeah, and well, that line was a Modge Podge line. Oh my goodness, because yeah, D State D State was next to you, right? No, D State was at right guard. Juice was juice was okay.
SPEAKER_03Juice was left, um, Justin, Hartwig, yeah, center, D State, yeah, and Willie. And Willie, yeah. I mean, that that we were the bad guys. Who's the highest draft? Well, Justin was drafted kind of high in Carolina, wasn't he? Yeah, he was. He was on his second, I mean he was with us. Second team, yeah. You were third round. Juice was a wedge buster, let's be honest to begin with.
SPEAKER_02Listen, that that Arizona was a little bit of a big thing.
SPEAKER_03Y'all both Samoan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there it is. Both both pollies. Um Juice was a fourth rounder. Okay. I think Juice was fourth or fifth.
SPEAKER_03DSTAPE was sixth. I mean Willie was a third.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Willie was a third. I mean, that's not what you expect. No, and and also the heights of all of us. Yeah, well, it really looked like self-service.
SPEAKER_03Depending on what's providing her, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it was, yeah. So that that, but you're right, worship group was spell, like we were all so close. Like we would go on trips together, like we were a very close group. We have fun, very, very tight knit. And I think that's what led to the specialness, right? The yeah, because I I've said on the show, and I'll I'll live and breathe and die by this, is that I'll take a guy with less talent and more heart over more heart and less. No, I'll take more heart, less talent over a lot of talent and no heart. Yeah, and that group had more heart, and not saying y'all didn't have talent, y'all were talented, obviously would be there. But the heart of that group was was just it bled through us all. And that that's what I think made that drive so special is that it's like, hey, we I don't care how we do it, it's just getting it done.
SPEAKER_02Because you have to remember, there was a young Calais Campbell on the other side. Yeah, that's right. Six foot nine, dude. You had Darnell Dockett, who was at a playing at a pro bowl level. You had Antonio Smith, then you had Bertram Berry on the edge, you had Travis LeBoy, and you had all of these really good defensive linemen. And then also you had um uh Carlos Dansby at linebacker. I mean, they had a heck of a heck of a front. And D State, D State was going through it with Dockett. Yeah, and Docket was talking trap. So that's a lot of work, dude. That was a lot of work. But D-Stape had a lot of heart. He did.
SPEAKER_05He had no knees, but he had all no knees, all heart and no knees.
SPEAKER_02No need D State without me, but you got no knees. We called him grandpa knees. Oh my goodness. But he fought, and and like you said, like to go through all of that, and we just looked at each other. And you remember, we that year, like the the 08, we fought so much on the field, mainly because of Willie. Yeah, because Willie was gonna put it. We're talking cologne at this point. Yeah, Willie Cologne, not Willie Park.
SPEAKER_03Willie Cologne's gonna just so wait.
SPEAKER_02Willie's Willie's gonna fight, you know. He you know, no butt and and all fists. Yes, you know, so he was no socks either. Yeah, no socks. Oh, no socks, okay. You know, so here's the thing. And Willie, you can defend us if you want. He used to cut the actual sock part off and wear it as like leggings. He's awful. Because he because you had to cover your legs, right? It was a disgusting thing. It was awful. Awful. And he they put a humidifier in his locker and it did not work. No, it did not work. Of course, why would it?
SPEAKER_03He would wear dress shoes with no socks. What are you doing?
SPEAKER_02See how many pairs of shoes he borrowed from me and ruined? Old choice. Yeah, he was like, he was like, hey, Max, man, uh, can I can I borrow? No, this is rookie year before you know the welcome dinner, you know, or the welcome luncheon. He's like, Max, man, I don't have any dress shoes here. We're just leaving training camp. It's down at the point at the hotel. He's like, Can I borrow some some dress shoes? Like, yeah, man, my apartment's right over here. Hey, just meet me over there. We'll draw some shoes. So he picked out these nice shoes. He just keep them. And so we walk out and we get there, he throws the shoes on. Like, hey, bro, where are your socks at? He's like, Oh, I don't wear socks, and walked off. No. I was like, no. I was like, bro, what? Don't work like that. And then he and then he took, he had the nerve to take them off in the hotel after we were done and try and hand them back. I was like, you keep those, man. That's my gift of your I would never wear those. Oh yours. Oh god.
SPEAKER_03He said, I don't wear socks. He didn't ever say that like it's like practice, nothing. Never with practice.
SPEAKER_01Would you get to the bottom of that?
SPEAKER_03Nobody asked, like, hey man, he just did he just didn't he did it like socks. Yeah, he doesn't, he was too restrictive. Socks are the best. He just boycotted socks. Good socks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he was a he was a full sock boycotter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just awful. Yeah. Uh anyway, that was that one, no one dark, no one darts. He wore, he wore sandals a lot, didn't he? Yeah, he wore a sandals. He just wore flip-flop. Yeah, that's just awful.
SPEAKER_00Hey, that's a typical no sock guy. It's just awful.
SPEAKER_03Same flip-flop guy over the um but that's all we uh we we got. Yeah, we will have a tangent. It's all good. But that the obviously the last play, and I always tell people like Santonio had a the the first one was easier, and the play before was the first.
SPEAKER_02And I tell, I'm like, it was the exact same play. We just ran it to the right side. Flip-flopped. It was literally 50, it was 58, and we just switched the formation. Yes, that was literally it. And I was like, he should have caught it the first time. And so people are like, Well, what did you say? I was like, oh yeah, and I'm sitting there on the left, I'm ready to celebrate. It's like, yeah, it's so deflected.
SPEAKER_03Because I was the same way, like, oh my gosh, it's there it is.
SPEAKER_02And I couldn't imagine you're because you're seeing you knew the touch. You're like, this was this was the perfect art, teardrop right into his front shirt pocket.
SPEAKER_03I was like, Don't don't show emotion, don't show like you know, like don't do it, don't do it.
SPEAKER_02All right, guys, we could do this. But I also said, I was like, people like, if you wouldn't have made it on the second one, I was like, it was only second down, and if you believe we weren't gonna use all four downs to get that ball to the end zone, I tell people all the time, I my I I lost my mind because I forgot, like a field goal tied it, right?
SPEAKER_03We were down three. Yeah, we were down three, yeah. I wasn't playing for field goal. No, like I forgot, like I truly like that. Throw was dumb. And being said, like that's a fourth down throw. Like that's a throw you make on fourth down, last play of the game. Dumb, but it worked. Yeah, so it's great. It's always great when it works, right? Do you uh six Panther? Yeah, yeah. 60% of the time it works all of the time. Do you remember like your block and you see like what at what point do you remember like looking up? Did you see the ball in the air still? Like, what was what was what was going through your mind as the plays unfolded? Like, when when do you remember? Was you were you so engaged? And like, what happened?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I was I remember I was against I was against Bertram Berry, and it's funny enough, I let now live in Arizona. So I started working on the radio station out there, yeah, and they would put me on Bertram Berry's show, and B Train would just stare at me just like this, because he because I cost him his his one Super Bowl shot, right? But I just remember I was so locked in and I was so tired. You have to remember I tore my I tore my um I tore my LCL in the in the AFC championship game, the second play. So I had this mummy wrap from my hip all the way to my ankle. And so it was like it and because you know, sweating so much humidity in Florida, like it started like pinching off like in my in my in the back of my knee. And so I'm just fighting it. I'm like, my knees like kind of going numb. So I'm just like, keep on him until until the whistle blows. And so I didn't see it until I saw the replay on the big screen. So I had no clue that we had scored the touchdown until I saw everybody run into the corner. No way. And then I and then I ran to you, yeah, picked you up. Yeah. Oh, hey Evan.
SPEAKER_03We were just talking Super Bowl 43. You remember that?
unknown43. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You do. Yeah. Evan, this is Max. Well, you get your microphone. What's up, Evan? How are you, man? Get your microphone. It's okay. This is the like the family dinner starting early. We're actually gonna we're gonna just talk about the family dinner and then we're gonna keep going with what we're talking about because we're diving into this thing. You're going in. Um, all right. So this is kind of this is like the family dinner brought to you by Giant Eagle, but it's not the family dinner yet. It's just the food part of the family dinner. Yes, yes. Because Evan came down on time. I just we weren't ready. Because we're we're these stories have been great. It was on great stories.
SPEAKER_04It was on two, Evan. It was on two. No, a little earlier. Double count. No. Double count. I've got I got a specific number, and I met that I met that number. Wow.
SPEAKER_03You did. Red seven. Red seven. Um, okay, yes. Okay, so we're gonna we're gonna get back into it.
SPEAKER_00Hey, hey, we can we can eat and we are gonna eat.
SPEAKER_03We are gonna keep going. This is but this is the family dinner um portion of the food portion of the show brought to you by giant eagle. Thank you, everybody, at Giant Eagle for this food. Thank you, Bill. Um Max shops at Giant Eagle too when he's in town. That's right. Evan gets it there. You said that the um they had a bunch of things going on there today at Giant Eagle. Yeah, they had the wiener dog there, or the wiener. The wiener mobile. Yeah, there we go. Um, all right, Evan, will you explain to us what we have here while we then we're gonna get back into our story.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we'll welcome to stay as long as you want, but in the balls, we got some uh shrimp and grits, shrimp and cheesy grits. That looks good. And then the pizza, the flatbread, I should say, on the right there is my take on like a pierogi and steak flatbread. Okay, nice. It's a little bit of mashed potato on there, some filet and sauteed onion. And then in the middle, those are Cuban, like Cubano egg rolls. Okay. So it's got everything that a Cuban sandwich has inside and nice rhyme.
SPEAKER_02Are you are you still allergic to um meat and uh seafood? Yeah, I am uh I I'm I'm vegetarian.
SPEAKER_04I prepared a vegetable dish as well. So oh man.
SPEAKER_03Lawn clippings.
SPEAKER_02Well done. Well done. I mean, this is a basically what you're doing. And he hit he hit all three, he hit all three of the proteins, right? I mean, that's yours. Oh, oh yeah, here we go. Well, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um tell us what this is first, Vence. This is the Trogue's Daylight Chaser Dark IPA.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, it's more hoppy. I can smell that one. Hey, the color is deep mahogany. It is deep mahogany. Oh, yeah. That gives you an amber look right there. That's nice. Actually, that's nice.
SPEAKER_05That's smooth. Yeah, it's not crazy.
SPEAKER_02It smells hoppier than it tastes. Yeah, that's that's not bad.
SPEAKER_05I like them, I like them.
SPEAKER_02Um turkey season. It is coming up. Trust me, it is coming up. I was excited.
SPEAKER_03I was like, Yeah. Um, do you so we I'm we're getting back to the Super Bowl thing because I don't know how long Evan, you can stay as long as you want. But you know, Evan, we haven't talked about it.
SPEAKER_00Take a chair, bro. I'm always saying this because we haven't gotten this book, maybe the family dinner.
SPEAKER_03Your dad in Notre Dame. Yep. Did you know that?
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_03He got so excited. Oh, you are like diehard. Maybe the greatest D-line in the history of Notre Dame, right? D-line? Yep. Yeah, ever.
SPEAKER_04Very cool.
SPEAKER_03Now you like Max all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_04No, not all of a sudden. I've always liked Max. Okay, I'm just checking.
SPEAKER_03Was there anything that you wanted to ask Max?
SPEAKER_02Uh, I was gonna say him and two of my so I had three family members that played in Notre Dame at the same time. Did you have one that went to SC though? Two. Two. I had two uncles that went all of a sudden. How does that work? Yeah, no functions. So my grandmother was um her grandmother was torn, so she actually had a jersey made that had half USC, half Notre Dame. Very cool. When she would show up to the games, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um she was the originator of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she was one of the first. She's actually, do you know, she's actually my grandmother's the only woman to ever win the NFL Mother of the Year Award. Really? Really?
SPEAKER_03How do you win? I mean, how do you like win that?
SPEAKER_02They made it in 1988. They made that award. And so the first year of it, because she had three sons playing in the NFL at the same time. My my that would that would probably qualify you as well. Yep, she's got the stock. Good jeans. But my uncle got defensive player of the year, my uncle Joey for the Vikings. He was defensive player, NFL defensive player of the year the same year. So they had created this award, and it was only for one year, but my grandmother has the only NFL endorsed mother of the year award. That's amazing. Very good. So, yeah, so a little hidden hidden hidden trivia, a little beer trivia.
SPEAKER_03I like that. Um did you did you want to ask anything, or did you just want to listen to us talk? I'll just listen. Okay. You're welcome to you can pull the chair or whatever. We were just in the middle of talking about Super Bowl 43 and what he remembered, Max didn't actually see the touchdown. Touchdown until the Jumbotron. Um what do you think was a bigger in your mind bigger play? Willie's Super Bowl run or that play?
SPEAKER_02Oh, you know what? I'm gonna have to go as much as great as a play as that was by Santonio, Willie's run because that was our first, and because we did it from a sixth seed, like we did something that nobody had ever done before. Situation around surrounding it. Situation around it. And then, of course, the mystique, right? You're sending Jerome off with a victory and all the emotion just to get him back that season. Um, you know, whereas when we went in Super Bowl 43, we were kind of one of the favorites, right? We're the two seed. Yeah, we've been playing really well. So, and we had already been there, so we kind of knew what it felt like, right? The first time we had no clue. Like you said, like Indianapolis, you would have thought we won the Super Bowl that day. And then to still go on and play and get to Detroit and then all the stuff surrounding that and get to the game. I just felt like like that one, Willie's run sticks out because that was almost like a plant your flag, like our team's legit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And we're and we're gonna be in this conversation for years to come.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So that leads me to a quote. I don't like this to be interviewee, but I'm gonna ask you if this is an interview question because you take a bite. Because I'm gonna this is gonna be this will be a longer setup question.
SPEAKER_02Okay, good.
SPEAKER_03But I'm gonna let you as you as you as you house all this food real quick. No, these grits every yeah. The grits are unbelievable. Um because it kind of goes with the two questions, the two, the two plays. You're an offensive lineman. Everyone knows how much linemen love to run the ball. Okay? Yes. Or when the team runs the ball behind the guys. I'm I'm fine with that. So my question is I mean, it's fine, it's boring, but it's fine. Um my question is, are you at the people? You're sitting at you're at what you want to be right or left tackle? Left tackle. You just go left. That's like the pristine pass ball. Okay. I'm gonna give you two different play scenarios. I want you to tell me which one is means more to you. Okay. Pass play, called in the huddle. Okay. You're about to set. You got an edge rusher coming, you got you got James Harrison, you got TJ, you got you got a you got a dude coming. Yeah. Now you're pass setting, quarterback, uh, Ben Rothesberger. Sets deep. You're sick, you're kicking. Oh boy, here comes a blitz. Now I got a hand on the best, and I gotta throw my an arm, uh uh, uh, extended the blitz because a blitz boom. And you do this whole thing, right? You you're just rush, rush me. Rush me, rush Max.
SPEAKER_00Go, go now.
SPEAKER_03Ready, neither, please. You double, you you get two guys, you know. We talk, get two, got two guys, ball gets out, touchdown. Oh my goodness. Ah, it's 50 yard touchdown, pass, balls in the air for 60 yards. Okay. There's play one. Play one. Next play. We're gonna call a little run to the left. Run comes. Now you're just you you drive your guy all the way to the sideline, run goes in for like a nice 20-yard run. Which plays better for you? 20-yard run.
SPEAKER_02He's gonna throw the guy to the sideline. I know that was like blocked. I mean, that just dominated this dude. The stress, the stress level of the double window panes is what we call it. The double window washer, and it's like, it's one of those where it's like, oh no, I didn't call him a fan. Like, it's like you're trying to make up for something like, did I miss something? But it's like, you know, like the duel on the backside, like take two for three, and you, but all three come, and you're just like, oh. Because I had that happen a couple times in our career where we had it and it was corner fire, and the end was still rushing me like straight on my straight on my on my uh chest, and the guard and everybody, they're they're they're going to the right. Yeah, and but I see the guy, and you're like, trying to feel for something, and I miss him, and then BA come to the meeting on Monday. Is that your one, Max? Is that your one? I'm like, God, dog. I'm like, yes, that's my one. That is my one, BA. Thank you. I was like, yes, I got been killed. Thank you for reminding me. And and let's stress level. The lookout block. Oh god.
SPEAKER_00What's your boy? Help!
Family Dinner Food Drop And Tangents
Steelers Needs And Draft Predictions
SPEAKER_03No, I'm just joking out. Love you. Um, all right. So let's let's move on to this because we're we're gonna spend all day. This is great. I love talking to you. Yeah. So as we said, we're gonna let's dive quickly into like kind of the current state of the Steelers. Like just we don't have to spend a lot of time there because the draft's coming up. Yeah, obviously, this show will be actually while Evan Teresa is perfect, I mean this show is airing next week. Okay, Tuesday after the draft.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03So when people are watching this, they're gonna know who we've drafted.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So we're gonna start this episode, this, this next segment with who did they take? We're gonna see how good you guys are. So go ahead and take a time because I know I see your stress guy. Your face got red distress.
SPEAKER_00I'm surprised he doesn't have his picks in his piece of paper on the bottom. By the way, my notebook up some.
SPEAKER_03That's why you're sweating. Max, what what do you see the Steelers? You have to give me the pick right now, but what do you see the Steelers doing with they have 12 picks, which is you can never use 12 picks unless you're the Browns. You can use all 12 and then you're gonna quarterbacks. Um the uh so what do you what do you see happening? Can we give me an overall picture first and then go into yeah?
SPEAKER_02So I think like I look at it, and I think the top the top needs um are going to be you know, safety, guard, wide receiver, and then offensive line depth. Like those things, especially after hearing the news or setback with Broderick and his progress. So now it's like, okay, offensive line is now even more at the front of it. Yes, I know, you know, and Dylan Cook did an awesome job at the end of the season last year coming in, but I think you have to look at guard because Isaac Ciamalo's gone. Right. The problem is it's like, do you go early? Do you jump up to go get Ione from Penn State? I don't think he'll be there at 21. No, he's not gonna be there. I don't think so. No, I think the sweet spot is gonna be 15. That's the latest he can drop. And even then, I think you have to go in front of Baltimore to get him. I think they want him too. Yeah, because Baltimore really won't.
SPEAKER_03But again, with 12 picks, jumping. I I wouldn't jump into the top 10 to get somebody, but you can jump to like fifth, like Baltimore did that with us, like on a tight end. Was it and like they've done that to us too?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Mark Andrews, I think it was.
SPEAKER_03I'd be all for jumping, like you can jump five or six spots, get to that 15, 14, that sweet spot like you talk about, and get someone like that that guy. I think that's the guy you want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's the ideal guy you want in the first round. And I think if you can't get him, now it's like now I think wide receiver safety are probably the next position that's first round worthy for that. Because I don't think there's a tackle by the time they get to 21 that you're gonna say, hey, this is a guy I want to build depth around or potentially compete. Because I think those guys will be gone. Spencer Fineau, Francis May Noah, um, potentially whether you like Max, Iana Chore, or you like um Caleb Lomo, um, you know, those guys are gonna break free. Yeah, Monroe Freeling, Blake Miller, like those guys are gonna be gone. Yeah, and this is all in my brain because I do have I'm there for all 257 picks. I get real off the list. And so I think I look at safety, I think Dylan Thinneman and Emmanuel McNeil Warren, probably the two safeties that are gonna be after Caleb Downs. How good is that?
SPEAKER_00This is the most this is one of the more remarkable things you've ever made. This is a Cuban sandwich egg roll. Yes. Sorry, sorry, it it needed its own space. Um please, Max, continue. That is all take your time, Max.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, now um take your time. I'll take a spirit and I'll talk about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you rattled off those names. That was very impressive.
SPEAKER_03While yeah, while it's going on, do you agree with what Max is saying or you disagree with everything?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree 100%. Like, because the news about Broderick and and all that completely changes, you know, the draft order for the Steelers, I believe. Yeah, and I I agree with the wide receiver take too. I just don't know which ones will be available in that first round again.
SPEAKER_03Do you still want the Steelers to trade up and get the running back from Notre Dame?
SPEAKER_04Oh man. Man, dream. Yeah, that would be something.
SPEAKER_02And if running back, he's like, not Jadarian Price. I'll take Jadarian Price too. I like Jadarian Price. Yeah, but I mean, yeah. I mean, Jeremiah loves that dude's gonna be he's he's ridiculous. Like watching him because I had their playoff game last year, uh, Jordan's last year, Jordan Clark's last year at Notre Dame. So I called that Indiana Notre Dame playoff game, and he was special then.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but you know, I I look at that and I say, I don't know, like you said, I don't know if there's a running back that's worthy of that 21 after Jeremiah Love goes. But day two, if you got a guy sliding in that second round when they get up to it, and especially I think, you know, as you look at the third round, you're gonna you're gonna play with what have I got in the first two rounds? Because you got those three that are kind of all melanged together. Yeah, I think if they are gonna move up, they'll probably package two of those threes to get to go for to go for the guard at Penn State. And I I would not hate that. And I'm I'm fine with three picks. It's just total in the first three rounds.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I'm I don't know. I I I think I'm you know, I was talking to I was on James Harrison's show, and I was surprised to hear him say, he goes, I would take offensive line the first two picks. Like I still I think depth is just too important, and then with Broderick and then I would go get the like I would try and get a guard, like that stud guard, and then I would I would go get the best available. I don't care if he's a center, a tackle, a guard, because you there's just you need depth. You need to have that. Now I know there's need for wide receivers, and I know, but don't don't take a flyer. Don't don't reach at someone. Like, yeah, if they I mean I know that Evan always tells me as they're talking about like this mock draft hasn't taken the what's the quarterback from Alabama? Uh oh Tyson Simpson. Yeah, if they if they touch the quarterback in the first round, I will absolutely not Evan will burn burn his jerseys.
SPEAKER_04No, I got way too much involved with that stuff. That's like burning money at this point. Here's my wallet.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so we hear what you what they need, and we'll obviously we'll know. And I I I don't disagree with you. What who's what what do they do? Give me your predictions. I want to hear both you guys' predictions of what they're going to do. So prophetic you are.
SPEAKER_04The pressure's on. And I gotta follow him. Like you want to go first? No.
SPEAKER_02Still a trade up and get the Vanga from uh from right before Baltimore. Yeah, like jump to like 11 or 12. Okay, like go for Cowboys or Dolphins right outside the top 10.
SPEAKER_04I think they move up to 10.
SPEAKER_02But but you know uh because who has 10 right now? The guy's got number 10 because they trained for Dexter Lawrence. So yeah, you probably get it from New York, but I think New York wants that 10 because they know that they need help because they already have that higher picket. He just wanted one more pick than you price.
SPEAKER_04I'm like, this can go one of two ways, Evan. All right, and it worked the way I thought it would. I got so my god.
SPEAKER_03All right, that's so that that's it. You think you're going they're going the line? I mean, they're going with him.
SPEAKER_02I think I think if they're going to trade up and not stay at 21, that's what they're gonna do.
SPEAKER_03What if they don't trade up? What do you think? You think they're trying to get like the best receiver, best say like best of those three safety?
SPEAKER_02I think safety, safety or wide receiver.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. At 21. You think safety is that important? Like they need this. I I see, I thought, I said this a long time ago, that one of the things I thought was like very important was that for them to try and find a game-changing safety. But I don't know how like Caleb, like I think Ohio State dude's a stud. Yeah, I'm and he's gonna be top three. Yeah, but but you need a game changer, and I'd never want to say you need the next Troy. You need to try to find the next almost Troy, because that's hard to find.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Troy like guy.
SPEAKER_03But I just don't know who that is. I don't I don't dive into it enough to know. But it if but that's not, I just I just what I don't want to see is them, you know. We we always talk about on the show when we talk about draft, it's like, okay, you know you have your needs, and then you always have like that separate category of like best of just best available, best available, but like don't take the best available of like a tight end or a whatever. Like it just makes me nervous that maybe maybe the the the everything's different now. I don't know. New regime. No, no, okay. You heard it here first. No, it's like here we go again. I'm gonna stand up real fast. Yeah, do I take the stitching? Don't cramp, don't cramp. Do you is is the food all gone? No, is there any more up there? No. No, get this is your dream. Ev, this is it.
SPEAKER_04I can rush upstairs and get more food. Yeah, you've been talking about it. That would work ever. That's a good rush.
SPEAKER_03Bathroom right there, yeah. That's a worthwhile rhythm. We're gonna talk about this.
SPEAKER_00It's a worthwhile rush.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you. Any more grits? Yeah, I would take a grit. Do you mean a bowl or they have a bowl? They got it.
SPEAKER_00You got a uh kiddies pool full of it? I'll eat it.
SPEAKER_03Those grits are unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00What's that? How can more of everything?
SPEAKER_03More of everything. What do we why would we not take more of everything?
SPEAKER_01Evan, when have you ever asked me if I wanted more and I said no? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um this is you know, what we'll just bring your mic in there. We'll just keep it going. So make this show special. Well, there it is. I like that though. I like I like what he said. I like the I like I I don't disagree. I think it's linemen. I think that guard.
SPEAKER_01At this stage, I can't see them not doing that. Right?
SPEAKER_03I don't, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I a receiver wouldn't I wouldn't need a receiver.
SPEAKER_01But I'm saying moving, like moving up.
SPEAKER_03Moving up. I think you have when you have 12 picks, you have to you have you can't you can't use those 12 picks.
SPEAKER_01You can't well and and I think what you need isn't gonna be at 21.
SPEAKER_03So you know No, yeah, no, I would agree with you.
SPEAKER_01Like you're like at 21, you're you're doing best available, you know, unless like unless for some reason you know people fall, but at that point in time, like don't you can't risk it. Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I don't it's yeah, with that much capital, you should be yeah, but uh yeah, I just don't I don't think they I don't want to trade. I don't think they should trade up to like inside the top ten and try to do something crazy. There's no need for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're not looking for a quarterback, there's not somebody in there, you're not gonna get your Mendoza, you're not gonna I would I would love for them to do to just just hey Baltimore, you want this guy?
SPEAKER_03Guess what? Swipe him, bingo, swiper, swipe, no swipe, swipe, no swiping.
SPEAKER_00Swipey, no swipey. Yes, Dora.
SPEAKER_03Is that Dora? I think yeah, swiping, no swipe. Swiper, no swiping. Swiper, no swiping.
SPEAKER_01Yo, my daughter, my four-year-old daughter hit me. She was watching Dora, she hit me with just a noise, it wasn't a word. And you know, Dora would be like, No wrong ha and like it's orange, and you know, and she'll say the word in Spanish or whatever. And my daughter goes, I don't that's Spanish, right? I'm like, baby, that's not it. It's not Spanish. Unless you speak it in tongues, that is not a language. Like, I don't know. Yeah, but she said it confidently, looked me straight in my eyes, and I was like, I applaud the confidence. That was yeah, that was impressive.
Aaron Rodgers Angle And QB Room
SPEAKER_03The confidence was great. Yeah, um, all right. So you're moving up, moving up. What what but is Aaron coming back? I thought they would have liked to know before the draft, too. But I think Charlie Batch is the one who's been saying this, and he might not be the only one saying this, but Charlie's been calling it a lot recently, and and some people are starting to pick up on it that he's he's saying, and I'm gonna keep saying about Charlie because they're gonna put it on me and they're gonna make it like Ben said. Charlie Batch said that it's about the money, or or he thinks it could be about the money. I should say, I shouldn't say Charlie. He doesn't, I don't maybe Charlie does know. Charlie knows a lot of things, but Charlie's saying that, you know, I I think it's more about there, there's more here than just does he want to play or not play? It's like maybe, maybe either Aaron's asking for more than the Sitters are willing to give. Maybe, you know, there might be something there. So, so you know, who knows what's gonna happen, but um, you know, what does your gut tell you? Is Aaron coming back?
SPEAKER_02So my gut's kind of been that I think Aaron wants to come back. Yeah. I think he wants to come back. I think this is just kind of playing hardball right now. Because of the money, because of because of the money.
SPEAKER_03Or a contract or however, a contract issue.
SPEAKER_02I I don't think it's necessarily I think he wants time. I think he wants like a two-year deal instead of a one-year deal.
SPEAKER_03Oh, really? You think he wants to keep playing that long?
SPEAKER_02Well, just to have that comfortability about it, and then you know, you can spread stuff, dead money around, all that kind of stuff. But I think I think after last year, just seeing how he left the field, yeah, and how pick six is a tough way. Like, like, like disappointed and feeling like he let them down. Yeah, and it's like, and I didn't hold up my end of the bargain. And you know, I think there's something about him, and I mean, you know, I feel like you have a very similar like mindset from that perspective, where it's like this was going differently in my mind, and I knew what I wanted to get accomplished, and I didn't quite get to my level that I thought I wanted to. And so it'll it'll drive you. And I think that seeing that like snapshot as they walked in the locker room at the end of the game, that's what that's what kind of got me. And then when I went down the tunnel afterwards, I was like, this seems different. It don't seem like a goodbye, like I'm done. It seems like this seems like I'll see you soon, type of deal. Yeah, so that's that's why I kind of feel in my gut with him.
SPEAKER_03But you know what? As I'm sitting here at Max's, you're saying we're the same age. You're actually older than me. About a month, by a month. No, two months. You're January, I'm March. Oh, Jesus. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Semantics. It's less than two months.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, but as we're sitting here, and I know that you you know, Father Time's undefeated. Yes. Oh.
SPEAKER_02Hey, so I you know, just think about that. Yeah. I don't know if you guys saw me like catching a cramp sitting down. So yeah, Father Time definitely went.
SPEAKER_03Get out of bed hurting sometimes. But um, but anyway, no. You get out of the bed. Yeah. Um, have you heard about Will Howard? Like how he's done it at the was it what's going on. Minicamp. You don't have to go to that. You know what I'm saying? I don't have to go to that goodness. Um, I wonder. I think it's great. This is like I love that he's getting the reps. I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a big supporter of like giving him a shot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I want to see him get a legit shot.
SPEAKER_03If Aaron doesn't come, obviously it's not gonna be if Aaron comes back.
SPEAKER_02But I mean, he need because he we have not seen him throw a competitive pass yet. I know like I was so excited for the case.
SPEAKER_03But he was pretty good his last few years of college, his last few games. I mean, last few games really good.
SPEAKER_02And I and I had him at K-State before he went to Ohio State, too.
SPEAKER_03So I I've watched it the worst thing that happened was him getting hurt and not getting any preseason reps. It was horrible.
SPEAKER_02No, especially like, I mean, that Carolina game, he would have got a ton of raps in Jacksonville, and to not have him there, and I thought, okay, things are starting to progress, and he's gonna, and then boom, set back again. But I but I I want I want to see what he can do. I don't care where he was drafted, and people are like, oh, well, since he wasn't drafting. It doesn't matter. If you could throw the football, you can throw the football.
SPEAKER_03He played at a big time program and he went one, yes.
SPEAKER_02And and had probably one of the best postseason stretches of a quarterback in the playoffs.
SPEAKER_03Let's be honest, you went to a big-time program, I didn't. But when you're playing in those postseason games, those are like mini NFL teams. Like they're there's so many NFL players. Like you're playing so many.
SPEAKER_02Look how many are about to get drafted, like from Ohio Day.
SPEAKER_03There's it's probably more competitive than a preseason game, to be honest. Like there's a lot, there's a lot better going on.
SPEAKER_02I mean, well, for us, even when we played, right, we said game day was easier than practice because we had the number one defense in the league that we were going up against every day. So when we got to the game, it was like a break.
SPEAKER_03Oh Troy's not out there running around. Oh, thank goodness. Oh, thank God.
SPEAKER_02It's just a jet. James isn't coming off the edge and like bull rushing me in shells, and then I step on Ben's ankle and sprain it for Ben there.
SPEAKER_03You know what a 19 feels like on a on a on a foot? Yeah, no, not good. Thank God you try it. No, I'll try. I'll think it worked. You know, with a spot with a cleat. Yeah, with a cleat. Oh, it was so bad. Around up on a bad toe? That's not good. A big toe around a big toenail. Yeah, yeah. Um earned it. Well, well, that's I I can't wait to see what happens. I I wouldn't be like crazy if they did exactly what Max said.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't be surprised, man. I feel like it's one, your insight, and just yes, I feel like you you've, you know, obviously what you do for a living now, um, you're you're tapped into it. But it's it seems very wise based upon what we need right now, man. It's like I can't see that's what we were just saying. Like, I can't see them not moving up the case.
SPEAKER_02I mean, at least taking a shot at it. Right. Yeah. Whether it works or not is a whole different story because obviously you have to have a suitor that's willing to take that deal. Right. But if we're going strictly off needs and what could elevate this team, regardless of whoever's at quarterback, as you know, but build your line.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Build your line. And not build a line and then put a quarterback into it. Then you then you insert quarterback. That's why I said I said if you build both your offensive and defensive lines and then you go get a quarterback, that's the perfect progression that you want.
SPEAKER_03Teams want to get a quarterback and then build a line around. I've seen that for a bit preach. I know this.
SPEAKER_02Remember David Carr. Yeah. We went down to Houston, right? They did not build that line, and David got absolutely assassinated. Couldn't even play anymore. It's just so bad.
Mike McCarthy Fit And Tomlin On TV
SPEAKER_03Did you think that the Uh the McCarthy, did you like the McCarthy higher?
SPEAKER_02I did. I did actually like it because at first, you know, everybody's like, oh, booing it. I'm like, but think about this, right? If you didn't really love any of the candidates this year that were coming out, and also so much later in the process as well, getting into it, I was like, why wouldn't you go take a guy that you know has a proven track record of winning? Yep. And he's done it arguably the other two biggest franchises in the NFL, in the Cowboys and the Packers. Storied hit franchise, didn't blink an eye, and he's from Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_03That's that's that sets on to me right there. When you're a Yinzer on top of that, like the drink and knows what it is to what it what it means to be to bleed black and gold here.
SPEAKER_02He does, and he's bled black and gold and just had to cover it up all the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, when he coached for the second, third biggest teams in the NFL. I mean, it makes sense.
SPEAKER_02You can't say, ah, this is still my favorite. Yeah. But to I so I feel like there's a certain stewardship when it's in that position, right? And he's gonna do everything in his power to be successful and pour his heart into it. And that's what I care about, right? I care about a guy pouring it. Do I need another 19 years like Mike Tomlin or 12 from Cow or no? But I want the passion and the intensity to be there. And I feel like he has that offensive mind. He's put together a really good staff. Yeah. I I I'm like, I'm all for it because I think it's something different, but yet it's a guy who carries a philosophy and carries the traditions. So you're not going to be changing the entire culture. The whole way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03The whole, yeah. He he, if anything, he wants to keep it, get back to it, whatever you want to call it. And I think there's not many people out there that would want to win a Super Bowl as bad as he would. I know every all coaches. Listen, what do you mean, Ben? No, yeah, all coaches want it. Yeah. But for him to win it here, there's a little something extra.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that that's a childhood fantasy. Yes. You know what I'm saying? That's the stuff you go and play backyard football and throwing and throwing the ball up to your buddy on a go route, right? No, those are the moments you think of. Like, I still think of like when we went to Super Bowl 40, I still think about I was in eighth grade. I was at my boy William Whitehead's house. And I think Williams actually still lives up. I think he moved up here to Pittsburgh, actually. And we're playing basketball in the front in the front yard, and we go in to watch Super Bowl 30, Cowboys Steelers. And that was the first time where I was like, man, I'd love to do that one day. And it just vividly sticks. That's what that feels like. Yeah. Even though you're like, there's no, I'm sure in Mike McCarthy's mind, I've been in Green Bay so long, I've been in doubt. I'm never gonna make it back to Pittsburgh. And then I'm out of coaching. Yeah, there's no way the Steelers only had three coaches since 1969. Yeah. And then you get that call. No. Oh.
SPEAKER_03Your hometown team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're like 10 minutes away from this from the from the training facility. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, speaking of the coaches, you you open the door real quick. What uh obviously Tomlin. Now you saw obviously now you're in the media job. You're doing, you've done radio, um, done TV. You've kind of done a little bit of obviously you you enjoy doing that. Is that yeah? I'd love to kind of get your thoughts on like what is the future look like for you? What's your dream? Well, are you trying to do that? What do you think about Tomlin getting the NBC gig?
SPEAKER_02I love it. He I mean, he's gonna fit right in. Yeah, I mean, you think about this. I like who who is his protege, who do you look up to? Tony Dungeon. Yeah, yeah. And you're replacing Tony Dungey on Sunday Night Football. Like, there's no better consideration for that. So I think I think he's gonna do excellent. I think he has the personality for it. Oh, yes. This is the family dinner brought to you by John Eagle.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_05Part did.
SPEAKER_03Part did. Thanks, Evan. Enjoy. Appreciate you very much. Yeah, I think he'll, I think he'll be good to go with that.
SPEAKER_02I think he'll be good because he has a personality, right? And he has his Tomlinisms that they'll work into it. But I think for him, it gives him that flexibility to only have to work one day a week. And he gets to see his kids. Because the biggest thing was he wanted to see Harley, right? Yeah. Participate in gymnastics. He's been down at all those meets. He's getting to be dad. Right. Right. So I think I think it still gives him that flexibility.
Life After Playing And Family Balance
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, that I think that's that's perfect. That's we can now actually really do the family dinner. You're talking about kids and doing all that stuff. Um and I I'll add you can't this cubano was extra hot now. What uh thanks again, Giant Eagle. Bill, we appreciate you. Thank you. Um Large Bird and So you're you're obviously doing large birds. That's good. Uh um, you're obviously doing a lot of the media stuff right now and traveling and doing uh you know the steeler stuff. Yeah. Did um and you have, I mean, you have beautiful wife who she was now is she still working?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, she's still a physician, active, inpatient care.
SPEAKER_03She wasn't uh ER doctor.
SPEAKER_02What was she doing when you uh physical medicine rehab? So she was in residency here at UPMC.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I knew she was doing like a new you know, big we all we married way.
SPEAKER_02No, we outkicked our coverage, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Actually, all three of us did. Um so you know, the family dinner. We like to sit down. We think family dinners are important, we talk about things, and so you've got uh an amazing wife, um, smart, awesome, two beautiful daughters, yes, that are 13 and 11. 11. Yeah, volleyball. We thought we're talking about. Oh, yeah, we had a good volleyball talk. Um, what's uh, you know, what's it like being, I mean, how often are you on the road? How often are you traveling away from them? What's what's like what talk to me about family real quick? Like what's going on in your family?
SPEAKER_02So fall and winter, daddy isn't daddy's not there on the weekends because I'm covering college and pro football. So obviously I call the Steelers, I do I do Steelers games every week. I also do ESPN college games every week. And then when the Steelers don't play on the game. That's just a random game, like whoever they they it's not usually the number two game of the week on radio. I'm on I'm on the I'm on the number two crew. And then when the Steelers don't play on Sundays, I do the NFL radio broadcast coverage for ESPN.
SPEAKER_05Nice. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So whether we have Thursday night football, Friday night football, or Monday night football, I'll go do a Sunday one o'clock game for ESPN on the radio. So I'm gone about 23 weekends in a row during that time. It is, it's tough. I mean your wife and girls, obviously. I mean all the girls, right? All the girls. All three of the girls. It's tough. And that's why when I'm home during the week, like I do, I do our I do our in-the-locker room show that you've been on. I do it from the house there, which is nice having a ComRex unit where I can do the show and be home because I want to be there for for pickup from school because I can't, I can't do drop off in the mornings in the fall because our our show starts too early. But just to make sure that I'm present, right? I mean, to know that hey, daddy's there regardless. If I'm not physically there, I'm a phone call away, I'm a FaceTime, I'm a Zoom. I mean, we I remember doing homework on the road, like on FaceTime. I'm grabbing a piece of paper at the hotel room. We're trying to work through math problems and everything. Um, but I mean, yeah, they my my family means the world to me. I mean, like you said, you I mean, yeah, you've known Tiff for I mean 20 years, you know. So um, so yeah, so being away and tiff's Tiff's just a champ. I mean, she she handles that household, she keeps everything going. Like you said, weekends to have two girls doing two separate things and be able to manage that on our own. It's hard, it's hard doing with your parents, let alone. Yeah, exactly. So, so she's a superstar. And so, you know, I can't, I can't thank her enough. I got the perfect partner. And and and and we kid about, you know, like, hey, you know, how long have we been together? God, you're old. Yeah, she looks at me all the time. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, well, I mean, I was a spring chicken at one point, but but I mean, but we we have a great relationship, a great um foundation. And so, you know, and the girls, the girls are just they're happy. They try and make it as easy on us as possible at times. They're sweethearts, but but as sisters, you know, they they have their mo they know how to put they know how to push that exact button of each other. And it's just it's hilarious to watch that, yeah, that dynamic. But like you said, they're great, they play sports. They're both the girls are in volleyball. My youngest is also in softball, and Waverly plays tennis as well. Well, nice. Um, so Waverly and Quincy.
SPEAKER_03You're not playing any tennis.
SPEAKER_02I'm watching. I am a I am a great watcher of tennis. I will talk all the smack from the sidelines, but I will not touch a racket. Um and so, so yeah, that's kind of our life. And then, you know, we we we got our we got our other bad dog. You remember Leo, my old Rhodesian Ridgeback. So yeah. So obviously he passed during COVID, but we we have a Spanish water dog now. Oh my goodness. Oakley. He's neurotic. The pause. Yeah, he's he's neurotic. I love him. The energy level, he's five years old. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Everybody's like, oh, Rhodesian Ridgeback living in the city, though.
SPEAKER_02I had an urban apartment with a 115-pound dog, the dog that hunts lions. Yeah. And he and he's just chilling. And and so every time the furries convention would come to town in the summer, the furries would be looking at him and he and he'd be ready to go at him because he's like, he's seeing all these tails and masks and ears and stuff. Oh my god, yeah. He used to get into it with the furries all the time.
SPEAKER_03That's hilarious. Max, I'm thinking at some point I might need because my obviously my daughter's one year behind your oldest, right between your two groups.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I feel like now I would say this. This is why I'm gonna say I'm gonna say this in the nicest of ways, okay, Max. And I'm and I'm gonna take this down the road, but I'm gonna start with here. And again, please, I say this with all due respect and all love. Max is one of the kindest, best, big-hearted, loving people that I've ever met in my life. Okay. Just salt of the earth. We'll do anything, give you sure of his back, we'll do anything for you. Doesn't take anything away from you as a football player. Obviously, you I think God made you a little bit kinder than others because otherwise you would just destroy people. So I'm gonna be that big and mean. You can't be that big and mean. Yeah, you know, and again, but I I mean that in like you are one of the best people I've ever met in my entire life. My question is, okay, so I'm setting it up for my question. Yeah, absolutely. When the the as a dad, I know how to answer. I know how to say that. When when the when when one of the girls decide, when either one of the girls decides to bring that that guy home for the first time, which Max are we getting? Are we getting the one that God should have made? Oh, it might go to jail. Like, could you imagine this? Like, so Max's wife, Tiffy, she's six six foot. She's a six foot six foot and a half, yeah. She's she's yeah, she's tall. So there's there's height in the family. Max is not a small human being. We know we can see that. Yes. Okay. Could you imagine? I assume that anybody that would ever, and again, I'm sorry that we're talking about data. I have a daughter too, so I get it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Could you imagine? I again, I assume that whoever is going to ever talk to your daughter is going to know who their dad is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I assume. They should. They should. But could you imagine going to the door? Yeah. And it's like, this is exactly what it'd be like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's that it's that scene from Bad Boys. It's Bad Boys 2. Reggie all the way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Reggie. I hope that Max comes to the door for the first time in a white speeder with a stain on it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Shotgun, a little bit of blood. I was gonna put something in a child something back there.
SPEAKER_00What's up, man? What do you mean? Have you thought about that day? Has it happened yet?
SPEAKER_02No, it has not happened. Okay, and my daughters also know. They're like, Okay. Yeah, nah, dude. I was like, I'm not interested in you guys yet. We good.
SPEAKER_03That's the same way. Have you thought about well, like what is it gonna be like I'm hating him immediately. I love it. Thank you. That's why I wanted to tell you.
SPEAKER_02I said, I I hate him. I don't know him. I I don't know what he's gonna be like. He's a missionary. He takes care of his brother and sit. I don't care. This kid could be the second coming. But if he comes to my door asking for my daughter's attention, I hate you on side love. And there's nothing you can do that's gonna make you ingratiate yourself to be. I don't care if you come up and you're like the biggest, nicest offensive lineman, you're affable, you have a 7.0 GPA.
SPEAKER_03You teach me, Mr. Starks, how to be the best tackle I can get.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And I was like, you know where you're gonna be the best tackle? Over there.
SPEAKER_01Over there. You have all of my hate. All of my hate is directed into you saying that's amazing. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, there they'll never be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I approve I as a as a dad of two daughters, I approved that message.
Two Minute Drill Rapid Fire
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've messed it up. Okay. Max, here's what we're gonna do. Go ahead and take your timing. Spence. Yeah. Hit us with the last one. Oh, I got you. Okay. Am I missing anything on the no, no, no, you're good. Anything else you want to talk about, family with so here's how we're gonna end the show. I'll tell you about this. We're gonna we're gonna hit this last one like this. And then we're gonna do a little thing that we call the two-minute drill.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Okay. What's the little time?
SPEAKER_01Let me ask a question real quick. Oh, you want to you can explain the game first, but I'm good. I'm curious because we've got a lot of offensive guys on here. What what was it like from your perspective when Ben would start doing no huddle? Chaos. Are you like, all right, yeah, let's press them, or you're like, hey man, can a brother catch a brother?
SPEAKER_02No, I I look forward to it because I'm like, especially at end-of-the-game scenarios, yeah, yeah. There's nobody I'd rather have leading the charge because you know, whiz or BA were gonna get in his ear. Yeah. And his head was gonna be F all that. This is what we're doing, okay? And I'll tell you the best one, and now I feel like the statute of limitation is up. 2012. Remember when we had our NASCAR uh package installed with Todd? Yeah. Remember how we complained it was only uh right-handed formations? Yeah, we had no left-handed formations, so we could, so depending on the hash, we couldn't switch based on the rule, right? About week six. We get to a NASCAR situation and Ben's like, listen, look at me, follow what I'm saying, and let's just go. Override, override. He overwrote because how can you get into a right hash and have a right formation into the boundary? Right. Right. How we have a three by one lined up that tight, and then you got one receiver with like three quarters of the field. You know what I'm saying? It was stupid. And then we would run plays weak side to the open field, and we don't have enough people because they're all crammed on the sidelines. So we were getting frustrated. And this is a sign of Ben's leadership, right? Forget all that. We're gonna do this, we're gonna flip it, just listen and just follow, you know, and and we did, and we finally flipped it because Todd was stuck. Because we could because we could do it because we all knew, and we're all veterans. There's like there's no real rookies out there at the time. No, so we're like, we did that. So that was one of the things I remember, and thank God for him. But yeah, but Ben was a guy, like, if I had put money on it, who's gonna get this guy was the drive, and he's gonna find a way.
SPEAKER_03It was I always say that using like I would utilize you guys like more than anybody. Like receivers always like, oh no, I got this guy beat, he's tired. Like, okay, yeah, I hear you. But but there were there were like we could be going, and I know everyone knows I like to throw the ball, like that's that's what quarterbacks like to do. Yeah, but when we would go no huddle or a two-minute draw or whatever, I would rely on y'all because you guys would be like, hey, they're getting like their front's gas, but run the ball, like like they can't do it, or run a boot, running this, do like like get out of the pocket, do these things because they got nothing. Like, don't even slow it down. Like, and you guys, it was amazing to me how we could we could get like a 10, 8, 10, 12 play drive, and y'all wouldn't really be that gap. I mean, y'all would be tired, don't get me wrong, but uh like the D-line, well, like they were just sucking it, and y'all would be like, Hey, they got nothing, like just Ben, keep running this thing, run it, run it, do this. Just lean on them, just lean on them. And so I would just I would rely on you guys so much because y'all wouldn't tell me things that just because y'all wanted to run the ball or or get the glory of this, that, and the other. It was like, hey, y'all got something, or or hey, Ben, they're jumping this count, change the way. We gotta slow this up a little bit, whatever it is. You know, give me a hard count, give me a couple of things. Just don't tell juice. Just don't tell juice. Keep it quiet. Don't tell it, don't tell.
SPEAKER_02Don't tell it. But you're right. I mean, and it was like sometimes it's like, hey, the best course of action, sprint draw is the best option here, right? You know, because they're playing so far upfield and they're not reading to the inside. Man, we could gash them with it. Or it's like, don't run over here.
SPEAKER_03Like, like, like, yeah, don't, yeah. Yeah, we we are hurting right now. Or or or like y'all would tell me, hey, listen, I'm I'm hurting. Like, so I got I got I got a sting, I got this, I got that. Like, like give me a give me a tight end, give me a credit, give me something. And trusted what, yeah, give me a chip. This guy's got it, he's got a beat on us right now. Yeah, I need a chip. All right, I'll send it back over and chip.
SPEAKER_02Cincinnati game, year the year um 11 2011 season in Cincinnati when I had herniation and disc in my neck and we didn't know what it was. And you kept coming over and picking me up, like, hey, yeah, because we had already lost two live and so we had big fella, too. Get up. So it was space warming up on the side. We'll put Titan in it. Space, like, is this how you do it? No. Hey, Max. I was like, hey, hey, can you put a different collar on? Max, we gotta get going. So he was picking me up and walking me like down the field as we were driving. And it was like those type of things. He's like, okay, well, uh, we're gonna go to the right, we're gonna go to the right because Max is just holding on for dear life. Yeah, that's what you gotta do. And so, and so those are like those moments, right? You know, where he you take the temperature of the room and he was good at at being able to feel that rhythm. So then when he audibled, he knew what he was audibling to, and he knew it was gonna put us in a good position. He was never gonna screw us, you know, on an audible, but like, all right, guys, we're running spread, we're going 58. We just came out of two tight end set, yeah, and we were supposed to be running like dive. He wasn't gonna do that to us. Yeah, but you were always good about sensing that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, it's again, trusting you guys that you would you'd be honest with me. It's funny because it just made me think of something. I the the to me, a true how do I how do I say this? I want to make sure I'm very politically correct when I say this. The best linemen and the best quarterbacks, when if if if I throw a touchdown pass, I'm not running down the field to celebrate my touchdown. I'm celebrating with the boys because they're the ones that did it. The linemen are the only ones a quarterback needs. Receivers need a quarterback, running back need a quarterback. So everyone needs a quarterback because they get them the ball. Yeah, we need them, right? And so whenever when I watch guys, when I watch quarterbacks throw a touchdown pass and they just run down the field, there's nothing wrong with celebrating. I get it. But to me, I'm like, I'm right here. Give me all five, y'all. And then if I ever had linemen that would run down the field, I'm like, hey, what are we doing? What are we doing here first? Whoa, we're gonna go. I don't know if you go on.
SPEAKER_02Hey, come on. I'm top, sir.
SPEAKER_03And so it made me think of early in my early on in the career with Max because we've played together for so long, is like I would when I'd see Max, he I would like jump and he would he would pick me he would catch me. I'm gonna max holding a big guy. Max holding big guy. And then as I got older, I realized it's a long way down. I just went in Max home, give me a hug.
SPEAKER_02I'll tap on, bud. More tired in the game, like at the end of the game. I have no legs. I have no legs. We're just gonna hug it. We're just gonna hug it hug yourself.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's a perfect segue. What do we have here?
SPEAKER_01It's an IPA. Oh, yeah. It's six percent. Just a nice little easy drinker.
SPEAKER_02Little more bitter. I mean, not horrible bitter, though. Neither one of the neither one of these three have been like super hoppy.
SPEAKER_01Trogues makes a good IPA. Yeah, yeah, no, this is a good balance. I'll drink.
SPEAKER_03Brendan would like those.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, that's good. Those are those are all really good. Uh trogues, thank you. We know we we appreciate trogues. You guys do a great job. Um, all right, Max. So this is how we're gonna finish the same. Okay, let's do a two-minute drill. Let's do it. And these are like rapid fires. Okay. First, I mean, you gotta just give me a first thing that comes to the top of my head. Well, yeah, you're gonna, I'm gonna give you an option. Oh, you're one or the other. Oh, either or. Okay. It's gonna be easy. It's gonna be way easier than you think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, sure. All right, you ready? All right, let's do it. Let's do it. All right, I'm gonna set my clock. I'm gonna set my clock and we're hopefully we get all the questions in. No timeouts. Yeah, there's no timeouts. Got it. We gotta touch on the wham. Okay. Okay, ready? I haven't been through this before. Pop round. Okay, ready? Here we go. Pepsi or Coke? Coke. Pie or cake? Cake. Chocolate or vanilla? Ooh, chocolate. Ocean or lake? Ocean. Favorite sport to watch? Ooh, uh volleyball. College football or pro? College. Monday night, Sunday night, Thursday night. Monday night. Favorite sport to play? Oh, football all the time. Okay. Car or truck? Truck. Because you ain't fit in the car. Exactly. Rushing touchdown or passing touchdown? Rushing touchdown. Cheese pizza or pepperoni? Pepperoni. Steak or chicken? Steak. Do you call it pop or soda? Soda. Harder playing the game or calling a game? Calling. Baked potato or match potato? Baked potato. City guy or country guy? Ooh, city. Right or left tackle? Left tackle. Chips ahoy or Oreos? Oreos. Yes. Pancakes or waffles? Ooh, pancake. Run out of time. Karaoke or guitar hero? Uh guitar hero. Hot wings or barbecue wings? Hot wings. Warm weather, cold weather vacation? Warm weather. Apps or dessert? Ooh, dessert. Uh who paid you more money? Florida or the Steelers? Oh, we just ran out of time. I wanted to get them one in and we ran out of the time. We didn't get it. We just scored right before the last kid.
NIL Transfer Chaos And Rivalries
SPEAKER_02Hey, with the way NIL is going, every kid's gonna answer college. No down the bottom. It's so because so on the flight over here, I was sitting with um a kid that just transferred from Alabama to Texas AM offensive lineman. We were talking about NIL, and he's like, kids are kids are turning down half a mil to play as an offensive lineman because they want 600,000. And they're leaving schools for that. I was like, I'm sorry, what? So do you realize you could have got me to sign for like$500 and a ham sandwich to come play at your university back then?
SPEAKER_03How do you how do you coach? Because you can't discipline a kid because he's gonna just be like, you know what, I'm out of here. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm thinking about when we had to get up at like five o'clock in the morning, go run, do a thing. 6 a.m. Matt drills and running. What are we doing? Now it's like you, you know, hey, you know what? I'm not I'm not I'm not.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna roll over on my thousand-count threadsheet in my in my own apartment by myself with my California king and my 90-inch TV.
SPEAKER_03I'm not I'm not sure how I I mean I know we've talked on the show, I know we're kind of going off this, but like I don't know if it's the money that I don't think the money necessarily bothers me as much as the ability to just transfer whenever you want. Yeah. To just say, I don't like the way you look to me, I'm out of here. Like, yeah, it used to be what? If your coach left, um, they lost a program, uh Willie Willie Cologne. Willie Cologne, R.I.P.
SPEAKER_02Hostra.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, if there's some sort of a unique unique situation, yeah. And it had to be, it was very simple. Almost active goddish, right? Yes. Yeah, it has to be something. If you wanted to transfer, you had to go down a division or down, you know, and then you could come back up.
SPEAKER_02Like they just or you had to sit a year. Sit a year, yes.
SPEAKER_03Same level. There has to be some sort of transfer thing. Like, if you want to save the money, because people are leaving to go get more money because they don't like like, okay, if you want to, if if Texas AM is offering me a ton of money to come there, sure, but you better you you're gonna have to sit out, or you're gonna have to like there, there has to be some sort of sort of cooldown type of period. And then and then is that team really gonna want them after that little like make someone come in.
SPEAKER_02Or you only get one, you only get one day one time, no harm, no foul, transfer, right?
SPEAKER_03How do you do how do you do the money uh Monday night football? Where's my camera? Monday football. Yeah, uh Ben Rothesberger, quarterback, Miami University, Ohio State, Michigan, Kent State, Texas AM. Ooh, like you know what I'm saying? Like you can name all go Aggies. How do you like Go Aggie Buckeye? Oh my goodness. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's tough, and and for me as a broadcaster, that that's what's tough for me for college because you already have a roster of 110 kids. Right. But then you you you can't watch last year's film.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, good point. Because the team, you could literally turn over half of your roster. Yeah. And a guy that I think is here is now here. And oh yeah, but remember when the receiver I can't make reference to last year's game if I called the same exact game from a year ago. Right, right. Because different guys, none of the guys are are the same, and it's not like they were seniors. So I think that's one of the toughest things when I get year to year, because I remember a guy from another school and he's now at a new school, and it messes with your mind when you're going through the broadcast because you're not expecting that name to be what you're seeing out there. So it it it is a tough transition.
SPEAKER_01No, I feel I feel like if you tax them on the transfer, like hey, you want a transfer, all right, and then it's x amount. Now you're gonna have schools that will be paying that for them, I'm sure. Yeah, but then too, how long? I'm I'm always curious about this because it I feel like it happens so fast, but I always want to ask people who are tapped into the college space, like at what point in time, if it hasn't already, do you see it affecting the league? And what do you think and how do you think it will affect it?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think we're starting to see a little bit of that, like guys holding out, scrubbing their social media accounts and hold the hold-ins and the holdouts, or you know, purposely going against like we're starting to see those kind of rumblings. And I think we haven't seen like a true like shutdown of it, because eventually that guy ends up getting moved, right? You know, and and they end up going somewhere else because they're not, but they're not gonna get it from that team. So I think we kind of see a degree of it, just the control's not there, like in like like there's control in place in the NFL where there isn't in college. And I think, like you said, it's almost like a soccer, like like a European football type of transfer system where you know they're farm players and they sell them off and you have to pay that transfer tax to get those guys. Um, so I mean, I could see that model working, but I think if we do a one, one transfer rule on top of the five years period, regardless of redshirt or whatever else, the NCAA kind of passed that soft rule where you get five total years. So there's not like six, seventh years like like we have right now from COVID and all these exceptions. Make it five years, one transfer, and just make a blanket rule. That would that would then create the equity that's necessary because it hurts your programs like if a Kent State or a Miami of Ohio has that type of year, and then school just comes in and poaches all of your best players.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like listen, people are going to the Mac now as like a like you're like it's a feeder program. You don't go to you don't go to the Mac for three or four years now. No, you're going there to basically like a juco to go. Yeah, it's unfortunate. It is, it's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_02It's a competitive juco. And but that but that but that kills your programs, like it kills a Boise State who gets into the playoffs and has that year, then boom, you know, guys are gone, and coach has probably been poached too, and you don't get to build. So if you created your own group of five championship along with a division, well, you know, tier one, however you want to call it power four championship, if you can create that championship and have the backing behind it, that would be great. Or you just say, hey, every year a group of five champ is gonna get that shot and get a legitimate shot, and that raises their value, but I can't poach that guy. Like you can't poach this one school because they have one good year, right? They're poaching the quarterback, they're poaching the defensive edge rusher, and it changes your program's complexion.
SPEAKER_03I also think it hurts like the rivalry game. Oh yeah, right? Like, like you think about I know at Florida, it was Florida State or Miami, right? Those are kind of the uh Georgia. Oh, Georgia, jeez, look at that Georgia. Sorry, George, I forgot Florida, Georgia. But like, if you've been there, so say you're a kid that's been at Florida for two years, three years, you're you know, like when Miami played, it was Cincinnati for us. Our urinals had UC on them, it was beat UC on the walls, it was everything. If I'm there busting my butt every year, knowing that that's my game, and then you get a guy that transfers in one time, how do you expect him to have the same level of like disdain? Yeah, like where's the are you gonna go? Do you care as much about this game as I do? You know, so I just think that there's a lot of factors involved.
SPEAKER_02Especially if, especially if you come from Arizona. Yeah, transfer into it, yeah. Right? That's another thing, like the regionality of it. Because I think the biggest thing we lost, we lost regionality in football when we started, we got rid of the Big East, yeah, right, and that kind of got separated between the Big Ten that he lost.
SPEAKER_03Biggie's basketball, big East Basketball.
SPEAKER_02Big East Basketball, man. That I mean, I use Thursday night Big East football. That was a that was an appointment watching. Our offensive line would go to this Italian restaurant in Gainesville, and that was our Thursday night like O-line dinner, was watching Big East football and watching either Miami, West Virginia, I mean the Syracuse Pit games, like we would watch that Backyard Brawl, and and you know, you kind of lost that with that was the first shoe that fell. But then, of course, when the Pac-12 disbanded, Pac-12 been around for a hundred plus years at that point. And now when I see Cal and Stanford playing Duke, stupid, what type of rivalry game is that? Right. You know what I'm saying? Or even when you see Oregon and Oregon and USC playing Ohio State and Michigan, it's like, yeah, I don't care about this game. Yeah, right. So yeah, I lost a lot of it in the regionality, and then and then you add the transfer on top of that, it just it makes it a lot tougher. I mean, I know there's room for new rivalries, and I I appreciate that. But something about the historical rivalries, like if Bama Auburn never played again, I don't know how I I would be truly upset. Yeah, like Auburn said, you know what, we're going to the ACC and you lose that game.
SPEAKER_01That'd be crazy. I mean, especially in the college space, like that's yeah, I mean, that's such a major component of it.
Final Thanks And Wrap
SPEAKER_02It is, and that and that's why I picked college over pro in that too, Minidro. The pageantry and the rivalries. Yeah, oh I love college. Yeah, I mean, they're just unrivaled. I mean, I think the closest thing is our Baltimore Pittsburgh rivalry. That's the closest thing you get to a college atmosphere. There's no other two teams. I mean, a lot of people will probably argue Green Bay, Chicago, but even then, it doesn't, I've I've done that game. I it doesn't feel the same. But Baltimore, Pittsburgh, that's the closest thing you get to a college rivalry. My grandma mooned me in Baltimore. Yes, on the on the on the drive. Yeah, on the drive to the stadium.
SPEAKER_03That's crazy. There's some crazy stuff going on, but man, Max, I can't thank you enough for joining us, for being a part of this. Um, man, it kind of went all over the place, but that was that was awesome. That was so special to hear your stories, your knowledge. I knew it. I told Spence, I'm like, man, I feel like Max is gonna come up with some stuff, like he's gonna know things. You're like Charlie. Charlie remembers everything. Yeah, I can't remember a thing. But I remember being with you for a long time and really just you know how special it was being next to you in that locker room. And um tag team shuffleboard champs, by the way. See, as well as we have it all. We have it all. We had it all. Um, I appreciate the protecting me. I know my family thanks you for that. But the many, many laughs, the times together. So thank you for being a part of this. I really appreciate you. I appreciate your friendship, and um really means a lot that you you could come here and and be a part of the show with us. I know the fans will appreciate it and love it. So yeah, thank you for that. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02My pleasure, man. And like I said, you know, thank you. Like you said, I mean, we grew up for we went from literally boys to men together. Well, yeah. And we had a lot of fun times. We also learned a lot. You know, we had we had those brother, brotherly moments. I mean, that's what kind of makes it all so special, like with us. Like we had our brotherly moments, we had our arguments, we've had our moments where we've gone left and right, but we always came back to center. No doubt. And we always had each other's back, no matter where we were. And like I said, these are memories that'll last a lifetime. And, you know, going through this and being being able to come here and like you said, go go see the kids upstairs and have those conversations with them. Like we were we were those young guys watching the other old guys have kids, and now we're the old guys with kids, and now we're worried about threatening the next the first boy that comes to the house. You know, it's funny how it comes full circle.
SPEAKER_03No doubt, no doubt, no doubt. Well, I appreciate you, Max. You're you're great. I know Steeler Nation appreciates you for all your time on the field and now what you're doing, you know, calling the games and this, that, and the other. So appreciate you. Um, hopefully your prediction is right with the Steelers. Uh good luck. Uh yeah, right. Fingers crossed. So, anyway, uh, thank you, football and family. Hope you really enjoyed. Thank you, Giant Eagle, for the food. Thank you, Chef Evan, Spence, again, for all the work that you do. So uh look forward to seeing y'all next week, hopefully, with another special guest. But um, until next time, we'll see you.